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<blockquote data-quote="ptolemy18" data-source="post: 3763696" data-attributes="member: 24970">Hmm..sort of. If you are Invisible, the way it's been ruled in every game I've ever played is, no one can see you... UNLESS they have &quot;See Invisibility&quot; on, of course, in which case there you are, standing out in the middle of the room, looking embarrassed. If you have incredibly high Hide, on the other hand, then even if your opponent can See Invisible, you are so good at hiding in those nooks and crannies and blind spots that they can't see you. Like a Shadowdancer character I used to play. So, Hide and Invisibility aren't *exactly* the same... and if Invisibility still trumps Hide in most circumstances, remember that rogues don't need to expend &quot;spell slots&quot; to Hide. They can do it all they want.Anyway I agree with KarinsDad that Invisibility has already been consistently nerfed, nerfed, nerfed from 1st edition and it's at about the breaking point. Pretty soon it'll be just like Darkness in D&amp;D3.5, a spell that doesn't even create darkness anymore, just a dim area. My feelings when I saw that change: WHAT A RIPOFF! A spell called Invisibility should turn you invisible. A spell called Darkness should create darkness. The point of a fantasy game is to replicate the cool things that are possibly in the fantasy genre. It is not to create 100% absolute game balance. Doing that is allowing the Game aspects to get in the way of the Fantasy aspects. Now, maybe the level of the Invisibility spell should be raised, or something, but Invisibility should not removed altogether, nor should Fly, or Polymorph, or any of the other &quot;broken&quot; spells that people always complain about. The way to get around these abilities is to give the enemies matching counter-abilities (but not *all* the time, or the players will get annoyed because you're just preventing them from using their cool powers).Actually, like felon, I like to play more low-magic games myself, too. But that's what I use house rules for, or 3rd party low-magic campaign supplements like Green Ronin's Mythic Vistas.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ptolemy18, post: 3763696, member: 24970"] Hmm..sort of. If you are Invisible, the way it's been ruled in every game I've ever played is, no one can see you... UNLESS they have "See Invisibility" on, of course, in which case there you are, standing out in the middle of the room, looking embarrassed. If you have incredibly high Hide, on the other hand, then even if your opponent can See Invisible, you are so good at hiding in those nooks and crannies and blind spots that they can't see you. Like a Shadowdancer character I used to play. So, Hide and Invisibility aren't *exactly* the same... and if Invisibility still trumps Hide in most circumstances, remember that rogues don't need to expend "spell slots" to Hide. They can do it all they want. Anyway I agree with KarinsDad that Invisibility has already been consistently nerfed, nerfed, nerfed from 1st edition and it's at about the breaking point. Pretty soon it'll be just like Darkness in D&D3.5, a spell that doesn't even create darkness anymore, just a dim area. My feelings when I saw that change: WHAT A RIPOFF! A spell called Invisibility should turn you invisible. A spell called Darkness should create darkness. The point of a fantasy game is to replicate the cool things that are possibly in the fantasy genre. It is not to create 100% absolute game balance. Doing that is allowing the Game aspects to get in the way of the Fantasy aspects. Now, maybe the level of the Invisibility spell should be raised, or something, but Invisibility should not removed altogether, nor should Fly, or Polymorph, or any of the other "broken" spells that people always complain about. The way to get around these abilities is to give the enemies matching counter-abilities (but not *all* the time, or the players will get annoyed because you're just preventing them from using their cool powers). Actually, like felon, I like to play more low-magic games myself, too. But that's what I use house rules for, or 3rd party low-magic campaign supplements like Green Ronin's Mythic Vistas. [/QUOTE]

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