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<blockquote data-quote="coyote6" data-source="post: 3765884" data-attributes="member: 1225">IMO, invisibility is a Hide booster now; it doesn't make it completely useless. It's only a DC 20 Spot check to notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 ft. While it's a DC 40 to really pinpoint their location, but only a DC 20 to notice that something funky is going on; try and run past 20 random people, and odds are one of 'em will notice something weird. Get in a room with some of those high HD monsters with Spot at +20 or more, and you *will* be noticed.So, if they want to remain undetected, invisible characters need to move slowly and carefully -- kind of like if they were trying to move while hiding. Plus, hiding is much easier to do with invisibility, since you automatically have concealment and can thus use the Hide skill. So, smart invisible people still Hide, IME. And they also stay way away from dogs, lots of magical beasts &amp; animals, and bugbears, among other critters. Things with Scent that smell something they aren't expecting (hey, there's an elf in my bugbear camp) and/or can't see are liable to be a wee bit suspicious and/or noisy. (Now, if you want to talk spells I dislike, it's the latter-day scent-removal spells from Spell Compendium &amp; some earlier book; they make it too easy to be nigh-undetectable, combined with invisibility.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="coyote6, post: 3765884, member: 1225"] IMO, invisibility is a Hide booster now; it doesn't make it completely useless. It's only a DC 20 Spot check to notice the presence of an active invisible creature within 30 ft. While it's a DC 40 to really pinpoint their location, but only a DC 20 to notice that something funky is going on; try and run past 20 random people, and odds are one of 'em will notice something weird. Get in a room with some of those high HD monsters with Spot at +20 or more, and you *will* be noticed. So, if they want to remain undetected, invisible characters need to move slowly and carefully -- kind of like if they were trying to move while hiding. Plus, hiding is much easier to do with invisibility, since you automatically have concealment and can thus use the Hide skill. So, smart invisible people still Hide, IME. And they also stay way away from dogs, lots of magical beasts & animals, and bugbears, among other critters. Things with Scent that smell something they aren't expecting (hey, there's an elf in my bugbear camp) and/or can't see are liable to be a wee bit suspicious and/or noisy. (Now, if you want to talk spells I dislike, it's the latter-day scent-removal spells from Spell Compendium & some earlier book; they make it too easy to be nigh-undetectable, combined with invisibility.) [/QUOTE]

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