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<blockquote data-quote="CharlesRyan" data-source="post: 4993884" data-attributes="member: 5265">Somewhere along the way, without me consciously realizing it (I'm like a frog in a pot of water, I guess), the concept of &quot;having a plot&quot; has become synonymous with &quot;knowing how the game will end.&quot; I've contributed to it myself, by running with the D-Day analogy and ruminating on whether knowing the outcome matters.So let me backtrack and clarify my own position:I view plot in RPGs as providing structure and a method for introducing and playing out elements that create a satisfying experience for the players based on classic story structure.That means I have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen in the third act of my campaign. Metaphorically, I expect the hobbits to reach the volcano in an attempt to throw in the ring.That does not mean that I have predetermined whether they'll succeed or fail. Honestly, I think they probably will, because like most GMs I'll put together a challenge that's tough, has its share of surprises, and really puts the PCs through the wringer--but will be scaled appropriately to the capabilities of their characters. (In fact, it's safe to say that if they fail in the final encounter of a 3-year campaign, I will feel I've failed as a GM. But I will also feel I've failed if it's too easy and seems anticlimactic.) But I don't know for sure, and finding out is part of the fun for me as much as for the players.EW, I agree with your sports analogies. Dramatic tension is important in an RPG, just as it is in fiction, and a known outcome spoils that tension. (Of course, &quot;predetermined&quot; is not the same as &quot;known.&quot;) So I want to clarify that I've never advocated a known or even predetermined outcome. And I don't believe that predetermination of outcome is a necessary part of the use of plot in an RPG.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CharlesRyan, post: 4993884, member: 5265"] Somewhere along the way, without me consciously realizing it (I'm like a frog in a pot of water, I guess), the concept of "having a plot" has become synonymous with "knowing how the game will end." I've contributed to it myself, by running with the D-Day analogy and ruminating on whether knowing the outcome matters. So let me backtrack and clarify my own position: I view plot in RPGs as providing structure and a method for introducing and playing out elements that create a satisfying experience for the players based on classic story structure. That means I have a pretty good idea of what's going to happen in the third act of my campaign. Metaphorically, I expect the hobbits to reach the volcano in an attempt to throw in the ring. That does [B]not[/B] mean that I have predetermined whether they'll succeed or fail. Honestly, I think they probably will, because like most GMs I'll put together a challenge that's tough, has its share of surprises, and really puts the PCs through the wringer--but will be scaled appropriately to the capabilities of their characters. (In fact, it's safe to say that if they fail in the final encounter of a 3-year campaign, I will feel I've failed as a GM. But I will also feel I've failed if it's too easy and seems anticlimactic.) But I don't know for sure, and finding out is part of the fun for me as much as for the players. EW, I agree with your sports analogies. Dramatic tension is important in an RPG, just as it is in fiction, and a known outcome spoils that tension. (Of course, "predetermined" is not the same as "known.") So I want to clarify that I've never advocated a known or even predetermined outcome. And I don't believe that predetermination of outcome is a necessary part of the use of plot in an RPG. [/QUOTE]

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