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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 4994887" data-attributes="member: 18280">Didn't ignore it; the designers warn you that using it to resolve the main conflict can easily remove you from the game.In SA, it is clear that the players are intended to have a great deal of control over the framework, including a high level of control over what the victory conditions are, and what the means for resolving those victory conditions are.&nbsp; That is not the same as saying, as you did, that the outcome was known aforehand.&nbsp; Nor does your &quot;very salient point&quot; make the outcome known aforehand (assuming, as you did earlier, and as the designers do, that the player actually wishes to engage with the game).&nbsp; Shifting the terrain doesn't make your argument any stronger.Again, your example is a critical fail toward demonstrating your position, while it is a good example reinforcing mine.&nbsp; I realize that I didn't prove my point to you, but then I cannot conceive of what would actually do so.&nbsp; The game is available for anyone to examine, and encourage them to do so.&nbsp; They can easily make up their own minds.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 4994887, member: 18280"] Didn't ignore it; the designers warn you that using it to resolve the main conflict can easily remove you from the game. In SA, it is clear that the players are intended to have a great deal of control over the framework, including a high level of control over what the victory conditions are, and what the means for resolving those victory conditions are. That is not the same as saying, as you did, that the outcome was known aforehand. Nor does your "very salient point" make the outcome known aforehand (assuming, as you did earlier, and as the designers do, that the player actually wishes to engage with the game). Shifting the terrain doesn't make your argument any stronger. Again, your example is a critical fail toward demonstrating your position, while it is a good example reinforcing mine. I realize that I didn't prove my point [i][b]to you[/b][/i][b][/b], but then I cannot conceive of what would actually do so. The game is available for anyone to examine, and encourage them to do so. They can easily make up their own minds. RC [/QUOTE]

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