Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="ExploderWizard" data-source="post: 4994896" data-attributes="member: 66434">Activities that are not games are excluded from the games category by virtue of thier nature. No one needs to do this. &nbsp;Perhaps there is a mistake in terminology going on. Success and failure are NOT the same as winning and losing. Winning or losing a game requires that game to have a defined end along with victory/loss conditions that can be objectively measured. D&amp;D is not a competetive game. The game does not have a defined endpoint and specific victory conditions. If the PC's defeat the big bad guy and save the world then they have achieved a measure of success but not victory. Likewise if several PC's die while attempting to eliminate the big bad then the group experiences a measure of failure but this is not a loss. &nbsp;Either way, the game can continue. The &quot;end&quot; of the game is entirely subjective. Even after a TPK the players can roll up new characters and carry on.&nbsp;Gameplay and resolution mechanics exist because the outcome of certain actions are in doubt. If there is no doubt, then there is no need to roll the bones in the first place. The illusion of doubt can only produce the illusion of a game. In a fixed boxing match those who agree to the fix are removing the sport from the activity. The boxers still throw punches and the crowd still cheers but there is no sport taking place. The match has become an exhibition (usually to make money). If the crowd is on board with the arrangement and still enjoys watching it, does that put the sport back into the activity? I think not.&nbsp;In a similar vein, engaging in a &quot;game&quot; in which the PC's will be successful regardless of the twists and turns employed to get there does indeed take the gaming part of the activity off the table. This in no way invalidates such activity from being fun or worthwhile for those involved,&nbsp; but merely from being a game.<img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="ExploderWizard, post: 4994896, member: 66434"] Activities that are not games are excluded from the [I]games [/I]category by virtue of thier nature. No one needs to do this. Perhaps there is a mistake in terminology going on. Success and failure are NOT the same as winning and losing. Winning or losing a game requires that game to have a defined end along with victory/loss conditions that can be objectively measured. D&D is not a competetive game. The game does not have a defined endpoint and specific victory conditions. If the PC's defeat the big bad guy and save the world then they have achieved a measure of [I]success [/I]but not victory. Likewise if several PC's die while attempting to eliminate the big bad then the group experiences a measure of [I]failure[/I] but this is not a loss. Either way, the game can continue. The "end" of the game is entirely subjective. Even after a TPK the players can roll up new characters and carry on. Gameplay and resolution mechanics exist because the outcome of certain actions are in doubt. If there is no doubt, then there is no need to roll the bones in the first place. The illusion of doubt can only produce the illusion of a game. In a fixed boxing match those who agree to the fix are removing the sport from the activity. The boxers still throw punches and the crowd still cheers but there is no sport taking place. The match has become an exhibition (usually to make money). If the crowd is on board with the arrangement and still enjoys watching it, does that put the sport back into the activity? I think not. In a similar vein, engaging in a "game" in which the PC's [I]will[/I] be successful regardless of the twists and turns employed to get there does indeed take the [I]gaming[/I] part of the activity off the table. This in no way invalidates such activity from being fun or worthwhile for those involved, but merely from being a [I]game.;)[/I] [/QUOTE]

Verification