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<blockquote data-quote="pawsplay" data-source="post: 4998630" data-attributes="member: 15538">Basic D&amp;D admits no differences between two fighters with identical ability scores. Mechanical differences do not constitute a personality.Probably, but it hasn't stopped you from playing fast and loose with definitions. I don't know with certainty what &quot;role assumption&quot; means to you. I know that in my view, role assumption implies freedom of choice. Yet you do not seem to believe real choice is a prerequisite. Hence, the controversy.There was a causal event, a natural consequence, and continuity. Hence, it is a narrative. &quot;Jail&quot; is an imaginary place, so it's certainly not a literal depiction of events.The fact that going out during the day will kill you is precisely what makes Vampire an RPG. Going outside is a meaningful choice with logical consequences. Not being able to go outside, literally, would be a characteristic of a boardgame or some kind of narrative game, not an RPG. Imagine trying to tell a story where a vampire could literally not commit suicide by exposure to sunlight, because sunlight destroys vampires who are exposed to it. No sense at all. &quot;Unlimited choices&quot; is not a prerequisite for an RPG at all. Unlimited choice, singular, is. The state of being able to choose. The specific options are always, necessarily, limited. A PC should be able to take any choice, not every choice. A character cannot draw a revolver if he doesn't have one. But if he has a revolver, he can draw it unless something makes it impossible. How is that splitting a hair? Either a player is entitled to make a choice, or they aren't. You are free to argue that an RPG does not truly require freedom of action, but I do not understand how you can argue there is no difference between a limitation of the game and a limitation imposed on a character within a story. I, personally, am not constrained in an way if my vampire cannot go out during the day, but if you say my vampire cannot commit suicide by sunbathing, you are restricting me, personally.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="pawsplay, post: 4998630, member: 15538"] Basic D&D admits no differences between two fighters with identical ability scores. Mechanical differences do not constitute a personality. Probably, but it hasn't stopped you from playing fast and loose with definitions. I don't know with certainty what "role assumption" means to you. I know that in my view, role assumption implies freedom of choice. Yet you do not seem to believe real choice is a prerequisite. Hence, the controversy. There was a causal event, a natural consequence, and continuity. Hence, it is a narrative. "Jail" is an imaginary place, so it's certainly not a literal depiction of events. The fact that going out during the day will kill you is precisely what makes Vampire an RPG. Going outside is a meaningful choice with logical consequences. Not being able to go outside, literally, would be a characteristic of a boardgame or some kind of narrative game, not an RPG. Imagine trying to tell a story where a vampire could literally not commit suicide by exposure to sunlight, because sunlight destroys vampires who are exposed to it. No sense at all. "Unlimited choices" is not a prerequisite for an RPG at all. Unlimited [i]choice[/i], singular, is. The state of being able to choose. The specific options are always, necessarily, limited. A PC should be able to take [i]any[/i] choice, not [i]every[/i] choice. A character cannot draw a revolver if he doesn't have one. But if he has a revolver, he can draw it unless something makes it impossible. How is that splitting a hair? Either a player is entitled to make a choice, or they aren't. You are free to argue that an RPG does not truly require freedom of action, but I do not understand how you can argue there is no difference between a limitation of the game and a limitation imposed on a character within a story. I, personally, am not constrained in an way if my vampire cannot go out during the day, but if you say my vampire cannot commit suicide by sunbathing, you are restricting me, personally. [/QUOTE]

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