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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5007270" data-attributes="member: 22779">Been away for a while.&nbsp; Honestly, RC, I think that our approaches are just not compatible.&nbsp; I lean much more towards what Vyvyan Basterd classifies as a &quot;game&quot;.&nbsp; You're don't and that's groovy.&nbsp; I don't think you have proven what you think you have proven to be honest.&nbsp; You have basically changed the definitions.To you, anything which is pre-determined stops being game and starts being framework.&nbsp; I think that muddies the definition too much.&nbsp; You can have pre-determined outcomes and still have a game simply because the player's goals are not based on those outcomes.Thus, Batman catching the Joker is entirely known.&nbsp; 100% known, as it is in Sufficiently Advanced (the use of Twists guarantees that), yet, the goals of play isn't catching the Joker.&nbsp; To you, that means catching the Joker is simply framework.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5007270, member: 22779"] Been away for a while. Honestly, RC, I think that our approaches are just not compatible. I lean much more towards what Vyvyan Basterd classifies as a "game". You're don't and that's groovy. I don't think you have proven what you think you have proven to be honest. You have basically changed the definitions. To you, anything which is pre-determined stops being game and starts being framework. I think that muddies the definition too much. You can have pre-determined outcomes and still have a game simply because the player's goals are not based on those outcomes. Thus, Batman catching the Joker is entirely known. 100% known, as it is in Sufficiently Advanced (the use of Twists guarantees that), yet, the goals of play isn't catching the Joker. To you, that means catching the Joker is simply framework. [/QUOTE]

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