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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5010082" data-attributes="member: 18280">Because people think about their games in different ways, and as a result use different terminology in an attempt to capture and share their thoughts?&nbsp; Moreover, it may be an artifact of post-1e games that changed their terminology in direct opposition of earlier D&amp;D.&nbsp; Certainly, 2e has a more &quot;storyline&quot; approach (from the success of DragonLance, I have little doubt.....and list five great non-Ravenloft 2e modules if you can!&nbsp; For some settings [Ravenloft] the 2e approach of &quot;Keep 'em alive -- the PCs must win&quot; wasn't followed.&nbsp; The settings where it was followed provided dismal adventures indeed.&nbsp; IMHO.&nbsp; YMMV.).&nbsp; I might be wrong about whether or not anyone in this thread is taking for granted &quot;getting told a story&quot; when they sit down to play a game, but I think you are mistaking &quot;hyperbole to counter hyperbole&quot; for a clear statement of opinion.I have little doubt, from reading his posts, that CharlesRyan is interested in the intersection of story and game.&nbsp; Certainly, over the course of this discussion he has mused on the same.&nbsp; But &quot;musing aloud&quot; doesn't make a position concrete, and I have the sense that the bit The Shaman linked to, above, is more exploratory than a statement of a firm philosophy.Moreover, in the bit you quote, CharlesRyan is right.&nbsp; At this stage of the game (pun intended), there are so many AP-type campaigns out there, and the AP-type game is promoted so heavily, that it would be wise to let any new players know what your game expects/demands of them.&nbsp; I would also say, that despite the current AP-heavy offerings out there, were I to run an AP, it would be wise of me to tell the players that upfront.But even running through an AP is not expecting to be told a story; it is expecting to participate in an unfolding story.&nbsp; Just as playing in a sandbox is not expecting to be read a world encyclopedia; it is expecting to particpate in the ongoing development/history of a fictional world.IMHO, anyway.&nbsp; YMMV.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5010082, member: 18280"] Because people think about their games in different ways, and as a result use different terminology in an attempt to capture and share their thoughts? Moreover, it may be an artifact of post-1e games that changed their terminology in direct opposition of earlier D&D. Certainly, 2e has a more "storyline" approach (from the success of DragonLance, I have little doubt.....and list five great non-Ravenloft 2e modules if you can! For some settings [Ravenloft] the 2e approach of "Keep 'em alive -- the PCs must win" wasn't followed. The settings where it was followed provided dismal adventures indeed. IMHO. YMMV.). I might be wrong about whether or not anyone in this thread is taking for granted "getting told a story" when they sit down to play a game, but I think you are mistaking "hyperbole to counter hyperbole" for a clear statement of opinion. I have little doubt, from reading his posts, that CharlesRyan is interested in the intersection of story and game. Certainly, over the course of this discussion he has mused on the same. But "musing aloud" doesn't make a position concrete, and I have the sense that the bit The Shaman linked to, above, is more exploratory than a statement of a firm philosophy. Moreover, in the bit you quote, CharlesRyan is right. At this stage of the game (pun intended), there are so many AP-type campaigns out there, and the AP-type game is promoted so heavily, that it would be wise to let any new players know what your game expects/demands of them. I would also say, that despite the current AP-heavy offerings out there, were I to run an AP, it would be wise of me to tell the players that upfront. But even running through an AP is not expecting to be told a story; it is expecting to participate in an unfolding story. Just as playing in a sandbox is not expecting to be read a world encyclopedia; it is expecting to particpate in the ongoing development/history of a fictional world. IMHO, anyway. YMMV. RC [/QUOTE]

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