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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 5011612" data-attributes="member: 20805">This is an interesting thread, altho as de-lurking commentator... I think I see some of the underlaying issues behind this ongoing discussion. As usual, it comes down to the definitions being used by either side and the assumptions applied to the conversation....  For my defination, a 'sandbox' game is a setting that runs along as a 'world' with, or without the interaction of the players. The players then have the choice of which plot-line they wish to interact with and may freely ignore the dragon slumbering under the mountains to go chasing after the vampire in town... and when the dragon awakes and unleashes death and destruction on the land... so be it.  In this game setting, the players goals, desires, and characters can alter what the plot elements are I come up with, but very directly address which plot elements that get fleshed out and used.With my definition above in mind, a 'sandbox' game has significant depth in that the world goes on apace, and changes based on significant events. Sometimes those events include the heroes and sometimes they don't.  They goal is to allow the players the freedom of choice over the over-all plot and raise up those plotlines that are interesting to them.Just had to comment on this one..  Why does the suggested use of foreshadowing = "EXACTLY THE SAME WAY EVERY FRIGGIN' TIME." ?  I beleive its generally a good idea to let the players know, in metagame if required, the sort of challenge they may be facing... that way they can plan and prepare for the encounter instead of just reacting.  Its also a good idea to occasionally challenge their assumptions and have the same kind of foreshadowing come before a completely different kind of monster.. but only rarely. IMHO, the hardest job of DMing is managing player expectations and assumptions. If these expecations are not met, the players do not enjoy the game. If the assumptions are not addressed/corrected... the players do not enjoy the game.  Last nights session ran the gamut from unhappy players, who made the assumption that the final battle was going to be a TPK, to a happy ending as the DM broke that assumption through some metagaming to get the players to see thier assumption was wrong.. and that they could defeat the BBEG.  {which they did, altho all the PC's were bloodied and bordering on dropping by the time it was all over}Its not so much the game elements, story elements, AP, sandbox, etc... that make a good game. Its the DM using those tools to create a game that fits into the players expectations.   However, it is good as DM's to understand the tools so that the right tool can be used at the right time and in the right way.Anyway, enough rambling from me... [/delurk]</blockquote>

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