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Why we like plot: Our Job as DMs
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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5012256" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>I will take the time and the effort to outline the argument for you. Hopefully, I will have the time to do it by Wednesday afternoon.</p><p></p><p>However, I will answer the following now. You could easily know what my answers would be if you just went upthread and read what was already written. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>How is this relevant to what you quoted, or the post it came from?</p><p></p><p>In rational discussion, a person can say, </p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">In the general case X,</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">but in the case Y, then not-X</p><p></p><p>to make a distinction about when X applies. This is, quite frankly, normal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes. </p><p></p><p>I agree that players, as a group, can formulate goals and, after bolting those goals onto a pre-existing ruleset, can create a game. </p><p></p><p><strong><em><span style="font-size: 12px">However, the act of formulating goals and bolting them onto a pre-existing ruleset does not necessarily create a game. The ruleset must be altered so that the outcome of newly-bolted goals is unknown, and so that player choices and/or actions affect that outcome. It is not enough to simply bolt on new goals.</span></em></strong> </p><p></p><p>As Janx said, </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I truly hope that you can understand this distinction.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Are you honestly saying that, no matter how much you know about a campaign world, you are incapable of making a character with a background that ties into that world in anything more than the most tenuous way?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think this ties directly to what your idea of sandbox games is:</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you go upthread, there are examples of sandbox games where play is definitely tied into the player's backgrounds. Your experience may relate to an apparent inability to link characters to a pre-existing world in any meaningful fashion, but I can assure you that your experience is not universal.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I am going to have so much fun outlining this argument. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5012256, member: 18280"] I will take the time and the effort to outline the argument for you. Hopefully, I will have the time to do it by Wednesday afternoon. However, I will answer the following now. You could easily know what my answers would be if you just went upthread and read what was already written. How is this relevant to what you quoted, or the post it came from? In rational discussion, a person can say, [indent]In the general case X, but in the case Y, then not-X[/indent] to make a distinction about when X applies. This is, quite frankly, normal. Yes. I agree that players, as a group, can formulate goals and, after bolting those goals onto a pre-existing ruleset, can create a game. [B][I][SIZE="3"]However, the act of formulating goals and bolting them onto a pre-existing ruleset does not necessarily create a game. The ruleset must be altered so that the outcome of newly-bolted goals is unknown, and so that player choices and/or actions affect that outcome. It is not enough to simply bolt on new goals.[/SIZE][/I][/B] As Janx said, I truly hope that you can understand this distinction. Are you honestly saying that, no matter how much you know about a campaign world, you are incapable of making a character with a background that ties into that world in anything more than the most tenuous way? I think this ties directly to what your idea of sandbox games is: If you go upthread, there are examples of sandbox games where play is definitely tied into the player's backgrounds. Your experience may relate to an apparent inability to link characters to a pre-existing world in any meaningful fashion, but I can assure you that your experience is not universal. I am going to have so much fun outlining this argument. :) RC [/QUOTE]
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