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<blockquote data-quote="CharlesRyan" data-source="post: 5014567" data-attributes="member: 5265">I just want to call this out, because I think at this point in the conversation some big misperceptions can hang on small differences in language:It's really important to point out that I don't see these two concepts as mutually exclusive.If the players do not buy into the core conflict of a story-based campaign, you have a problem. But that's usually known by the end of the second session.In my experience, once the players are into that conflict, the GM is in a position to make those assumptions I mention above. As I have advocated time and again, he can't be too specific--an outline is just that, and it's also a working document that changes shape over time. But with the conflict established and the world (including the factions and NPCs and locations that bear upon the conflict) in place, there needn't be any further limits (if you can even call that initial buy-in a &quot;limit&quot;) on player agency.Ignored elements continuing to impact the setting? Practically a requirement of a plot-oriented game.Players exploring plots of their own choosing, or devising their own? I've never, in 30 years of GMing, had a player go off on an unrelated tangent. But related tangents (otherwise known as subplots) happen all the time, and many of the best are entirely spawned by the players.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CharlesRyan, post: 5014567, member: 5265"] I just want to call this out, because I think at this point in the conversation some big misperceptions can hang on small differences in language: It's really important to point out that I don't see these two concepts as mutually exclusive. If the players do not buy into the core conflict of a story-based campaign, you have a problem. But that's usually known by the end of the second session. In my experience, once the players are into that conflict, the GM is in a position to make those assumptions I mention above. As I have advocated time and again, he can't be too specific--an outline is just that, and it's also a working document that changes shape over time. But with the conflict established and the world (including the factions and NPCs and locations that bear upon the conflict) in place, there needn't be any further limits (if you can even call that initial buy-in a "limit") on player agency. Ignored elements continuing to impact the setting? Practically a requirement of a plot-oriented game. Players exploring plots of their own choosing, or devising their own? I've never, in 30 years of GMing, had a player go off on an unrelated tangent. But [I]related[/I] tangents (otherwise known as subplots) happen all the time, and many of the best are entirely spawned by the players. [/QUOTE]

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