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<blockquote data-quote="CharlesRyan" data-source="post: 5015776" data-attributes="member: 5265">I think the GM and players were frustrated because they spent hours doing things that did not advance them toward their goals (the players labouring under the apprehension that they were advancing, only to slowly realize they were spinning their wheels). And those hours did not result in interesting or fun encounters as an alternative.You yourself have pointed out that in any environment--sandbox or plot-driven--characters and players develop goals and interests within the game. When those interests are stymied, the result is often frustration. Regardless of whether the plot was spawned by the GM or the players themselves.Sure. Like I said, it's a really simplistic example. In my experience, when the path is that clear-cut, players virtually never choose to leave it on a whim--and you're right: If they do, it's an indication that the path isn't sufficiently compelling; the player buy-in is clearly fading.More often, the &quot;path&quot; is a plot thread that isn't obvious to the players. They head off into the metaphoric &quot;woods&quot; unknowingly. A good GM lets them, then figures out how to deal with the consequences according to the road map that is his story outline.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CharlesRyan, post: 5015776, member: 5265"] I think the GM and players were frustrated because they spent hours doing things that did not advance them toward their goals (the players labouring under the apprehension that they [I]were[/I] advancing, only to slowly realize they were spinning their wheels). And those hours did not result in interesting or fun encounters as an alternative. You yourself have pointed out that in any environment--sandbox or plot-driven--characters and players develop goals and interests within the game. When those interests are stymied, the result is often frustration. Regardless of whether the plot was spawned by the GM or the players themselves. Sure. Like I said, it's a really simplistic example. In my experience, when the path is that clear-cut, players virtually never choose to leave it on a whim--and you're right: If they do, it's an indication that the path isn't sufficiently compelling; the player buy-in is clearly fading. More often, the "path" is a plot thread that isn't obvious to the players. They head off into the metaphoric "woods" unknowingly. A good GM lets them, then figures out how to deal with the consequences according to the road map that is his story outline. [/QUOTE]

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