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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5015795" data-attributes="member: 18280">I bolded the part I think is relevant.If the GM had been thinking in terms of a sandbox (rather than trying to decide exactly what the players would do, and therefore what he should prep), the drain may well have led to interesting or fun encounters.Alternatively, the GM could have treated the drain as a single encounter:&nbsp; GM:&nbsp; &quot;You manage to remove the grating.&nbsp; It smells pretty bad down there.&quot;

Player:&nbsp; &quot;That's okay.&nbsp; We think that this is important.&nbsp; We want to fully explore the sewer.&quot;&nbsp; 

GM:&nbsp; &quot;Fully exploring the drain takes only about an hour, as there are no branching passageways or chambers.&nbsp; The drain leads to a cliff, spilling the water 20 feet down into the sea....possibly farther at low tide.&nbsp; The entire area is filthy, and your clothing and hair are covered with muck.&nbsp; After an hour down there, you all smell pretty bad.&quot;

Player:&nbsp; &quot;Hrm.&nbsp; Better try something else.....&quot;The GM may also have placed a small lair in the drain (when creating the adventure), possibly with some goody that was actually helpful, to reward player initiative.&nbsp; In the event that he didn't even consider what was down the drain in the first place, he might create an encounter on the fly (easier by far in some systems than in others!).&nbsp; I personally keep a small set of lairs/encounters that can be placed as needed when the players go off somewhere that I haven't fully fleshed out.&nbsp; For example, when I buy a module that I dislike, I still go through it and extract all of the elements that I do like, including individual NPCs and encounters.&nbsp; I highly recommend doing the same.In conclusion, though, the problem was not that the players thought the drain was important -- the problem is that the GM did nothing interesting or fun with their choices.&nbsp; Nor did he allow the game to move along.&nbsp; The biggest danger with using an AP is not considering the setting as a whole, and thus only devising/rewarding the predetermined track.&nbsp; That is, from what you are saying, clearly what happened in this instance.(The biggest danger with using a sandbox is not considering the players, and thus not providing enough hooks/information to motivate them/allow them to make meaningful decisions.)RCEDIT:&nbsp; The players might have thought that the drain would connect to a guardrobe (bathroom) inside the castle, and thus allow a secret entrance.&nbsp; If this was the case, and if it was possible to run with this idea, the GM should seriously have considered it.&nbsp; In any event, the players were showing serious thought and investment in the setting, and the GM response shot down that thought and investment.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5015795, member: 18280"] I [B]bolded[/B] the part I think is relevant. If the GM had been thinking in terms of a sandbox (rather than trying to decide exactly what the players would do, and therefore what he should prep), the drain may well have led to interesting or fun encounters. Alternatively, the GM could have treated the drain as a single encounter: [indent]GM: "You manage to remove the grating. It smells pretty bad down there." Player: "That's okay. We think that this is important. We want to fully explore the sewer." GM: "Fully exploring the drain takes only about an hour, as there are no branching passageways or chambers. The drain leads to a cliff, spilling the water 20 feet down into the sea....possibly farther at low tide. The entire area is filthy, and your clothing and hair are covered with muck. After an hour down there, you all smell pretty bad." Player: "Hrm. Better try something else....."[/indent] The GM may also have placed a small lair in the drain (when creating the adventure), possibly with some goody that was actually helpful, to reward player initiative. In the event that he didn't even consider what was down the drain in the first place, he might create an encounter on the fly (easier by far in some systems than in others!). I personally keep a small set of lairs/encounters that can be placed as needed when the players go off somewhere that I haven't fully fleshed out. For example, when I buy a module that I dislike, I still go through it and extract all of the elements that I do like, including individual NPCs and encounters. I highly recommend doing the same. In conclusion, though, the problem was not that the players thought the drain was important -- the problem is that the GM did nothing interesting or fun with their choices. Nor did he allow the game to move along. The biggest danger with using an AP is not considering the setting as a whole, and thus only devising/rewarding the predetermined track. That is, from what you are saying, clearly what happened in this instance. (The biggest danger with using a sandbox is not considering the players, and thus not providing enough hooks/information to motivate them/allow them to make meaningful decisions.) RC EDIT: The players might have thought that the drain would connect to a guardrobe (bathroom) inside the castle, and thus allow a secret entrance. If this was the case, and if it was possible to run with this idea, the GM should seriously have considered it. In any event, the players were showing serious thought and investment in the setting, and the GM response shot down that thought and investment. [/QUOTE]

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