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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5017553" data-attributes="member: 22779">I say the setting is fixed since, as I understand it, the setting does not change dependent on the characters or the players.&nbsp; The DM starts with the setting, places the characters in that setting and then play starts.&nbsp; Is this an unacceptable definition of sandbox play?Can a quest be pursued however the players choose?&nbsp; That will really depend on the quest won't it?&nbsp; After all, if the quest is, &quot;Drop the ring in Mount Doom&quot;, as some point in time, they are going to have to go to Mount Doom and drop in the ring.&nbsp; Now they may ride giant eagles to get there, they might tunnel their way with admantine spoons, but, at some point in time, to complete the quest, they will have to go there and do their task.A quest campaign, by its very nature limits choices.&nbsp; It has to.&nbsp; You are tasked to do X.&nbsp; You are opposed by Y.&nbsp; Possibly you have a time limit as well.&nbsp; So, no, I don't think you can do epic quests in a wide open campaign.&nbsp; At least, not be design.Actually, that last thought might be important.&nbsp; You could have a situation in a wide open campaign where the players decide to go to Mount Doom and drop in the ring.&nbsp; Thus, you get the epic quest after the fact.&nbsp; After all, they could choose to go on to a different quest at any time and possibly come back later or not, as they wish.So, the epic quest occurs.&nbsp; But, not as a designed goal.&nbsp; It occurs mostly by the organic development of the campaign.That, IMO, is the big difference.&nbsp; And I think you agree.&nbsp; In a wide open campaign, the GM cannot design with any particular goal in mind, since the players may opt to do something entirely different.&nbsp; So, in the wide open campaign, if an epic quest occurs, it happens because the players decide that that's the direction they want to go after play has begun.In a story based campaign, you make that decision before play begins.&nbsp; In a story based campaign, the group has all either bought into, or possibly deliberately designed, the epic quest, and the GM is there to keep things moving in the agreed upon direction.------------------Like I said, there are some serious issues with the story based approach.&nbsp; What if the players change their minds?&nbsp; What if the players, half way through, find something else that tweaks their interest?&nbsp; What if your group changes?&nbsp; Etc. Etc.My answer to these issues is to keep story based games short.&nbsp; These are not going to be multi-year epics that sprawl all over the place.&nbsp; Short, sweet, to the point and done.------------------Heh, btw, on a side note, I'm starting to play in a campaign on Tuesday set in the Discworld universe.&nbsp; From the information I've seen, it's pretty much a sandbox setup.&nbsp; Sounds like a blast.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5017553, member: 22779"] I say the setting is fixed since, as I understand it, the setting does not change dependent on the characters or the players. The DM starts with the setting, places the characters in that setting and then play starts. Is this an unacceptable definition of sandbox play? Can a quest be pursued however the players choose? That will really depend on the quest won't it? After all, if the quest is, "Drop the ring in Mount Doom", as some point in time, they are going to have to go to Mount Doom and drop in the ring. Now they may ride giant eagles to get there, they might tunnel their way with admantine spoons, but, at some point in time, to complete the quest, they will have to go there and do their task. A quest campaign, by its very nature limits choices. It has to. You are tasked to do X. You are opposed by Y. Possibly you have a time limit as well. So, no, I don't think you can do epic quests in a wide open campaign. At least, not be design. Actually, that last thought might be important. You could have a situation in a wide open campaign where the players decide to go to Mount Doom and drop in the ring. Thus, you get the epic quest after the fact. After all, they could choose to go on to a different quest at any time and possibly come back later or not, as they wish. So, the epic quest occurs. But, not as a designed goal. It occurs mostly by the organic development of the campaign. That, IMO, is the big difference. And I think you agree. In a wide open campaign, the GM cannot design with any particular goal in mind, since the players may opt to do something entirely different. So, in the wide open campaign, if an epic quest occurs, it happens because the players decide that that's the direction they want to go after play has begun. In a story based campaign, you make that decision before play begins. In a story based campaign, the group has all either bought into, or possibly deliberately designed, the epic quest, and the GM is there to keep things moving in the agreed upon direction. ------------------ Like I said, there are some serious issues with the story based approach. What if the players change their minds? What if the players, half way through, find something else that tweaks their interest? What if your group changes? Etc. Etc. My answer to these issues is to keep story based games short. These are not going to be multi-year epics that sprawl all over the place. Short, sweet, to the point and done. ------------------ Heh, btw, on a side note, I'm starting to play in a campaign on Tuesday set in the Discworld universe. From the information I've seen, it's pretty much a sandbox setup. Sounds like a blast. [/QUOTE]

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