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Message: <blockquote data-quote="3catcircus" data-source="post: 1508775" data-attributes="member: 16077">But you implied that if you are able to play one d20 game, you could play them all with very little work.  What happens when, as others have pointed out, you run across M&M, which is a d20 game that did away with classes?  Or a game like Midnight where clerical magic has taken on a distinct twist?I never said or implied that one had to be a math whiz - only that a game once touted as aiding in the learning of math skills can't claim that distinction anymore.  Adding and Subtracting (which, other than inequalities, are really the only two math skills needed for AD&D) are not a hard thing to do - no need to solve partial differential equations.  Simply add/subtract and compare to a target number.If you want to put words in my mouth, go right ahead - I never said "...you're a (insert expletive here)..." nor did I imply it either.  Since you seem to have taken a general observation and applied it to yourself as a personal attack - if the shoe fits...Well - was AD&D (or any system before d20) unnecessarily complicated?  What do you say to that if I were to state that d20 is overly complex and FUDGE is the be-all, end-all of rpg systems?Well - how are skills significantly changed, other than allowing you to improve them more than you could with the limited number of NWP points you were allotted in AD&D?  Once again, dice roll vs. target number.  I'll concede that multi-classing was changed, but how many people house-ruled that in AD&D?  Many of the changes that came with 3.0 were as a result of house rules that many people adopted over and over again.  How did ability scores change?  The tables are nothing more than a graphical layout of whatever formulas were used to come up with ability score bonuses...  As far as XP charts - well - that is something I didn't mind them making uniform for all classes - but the fact that the amount of xp needed is so much less is another thing altogether and I don't agree with that.  One can hardly argue that the classes were significantly changed beyond the addition of feats.  Fighters still fight, rogues still steal and sneak, paladins still run around like Dudley Do-Right, etc.  Saving throws changed - agreed - but they should have gone all the way and made saving throws based on all 6 abilities.  As far as making the saves harder depending on the caster - good idea, but could use some work.What are the other unnecessarily complicated things of which you speak?Well - on second look - is it or isn't it a different system.  Fundamentally, the answer is no.Funny - you seem to think I was trolling.  How could I be trolling if I've stayed on topic (Why We Love D&D But Hate D20)?  I've not personally insulted anyone, nor did I want anyone to angrily lash out as you seem to have done - I've been happily debating the virtues of d20 vs. other systems the entire time.  Additionally, how could I "...refrain from using gross spelling erroes or "1337 script?"  I happen to be fairly well-educated and despise looking like an uneducated cretin by the display of gross errors in grammar or spelling.  Frankly, "1337 script" makes the person using it look like a complete moron in the eyes of those not involved in their subculture.</blockquote>

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