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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4056873" data-attributes="member: 4937">I suspect at least some people were.&nbsp; I don't think anyone is lying when they say there were people who thought 3E was going to ruin the game making posts on the forums back when 3E was being previewed.But I also suspect that there was more general agreement with the warts of 1E/2E, even from the fans of the game, and more general disatisfaction with the game at the time of 2E than there is now.&nbsp; In particular, you could have heard 'badwrongfun' rants from me about 2E back when the edition first came out (I never really moved from 1E), and by the time 3E came out I was no longer playing D&amp;D because I'd been frustrated by various limitations in the 1E/2E shared mechanics.&nbsp; I certainly didn't think of D&amp;D as an industry leader back when 3E was coming out.&nbsp; Virtually noone I knew was playing it.&nbsp; I knew alot of people playing WW games.&nbsp; The bookstores gaming sections were whole rows of green backed WoD books.&nbsp; I knew of alot of people playing Dead Lands, and a guy getting together a CoC: Delta Green game.&nbsp; Heck, I knew about more RIFTS groups than D&amp;D groups at the time.&nbsp; If D&amp;D wasn't dead, it was certainly dying.&nbsp; There had been some hopeful glimmers near the end of 2E, mostly from the designers that would later be responcible for 3E, but for the most part D&amp;D was a has been game that people associated with noobs, kids, and greyhaired folks.&nbsp; Serious gamers who weren't playing the game since the '70's were playing something else.&nbsp; Steve Jackson basically dismissed D20's relevance and it didn't even sound arrogant, because it was pretty much easy to dismiss D&amp;D as something that had unappealing mechanics that you'd outgrow when you saw the alternatives.&nbsp; (I wonder how he feels about it now.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 4056873, member: 4937"] I suspect at least some people were. I don't think anyone is lying when they say there were people who thought 3E was going to ruin the game making posts on the forums back when 3E was being previewed. But I also suspect that there was more general agreement with the warts of 1E/2E, even from the fans of the game, and more general disatisfaction with the game at the time of 2E than there is now. In particular, you could have heard 'badwrongfun' rants from me about 2E back when the edition first came out (I never really moved from 1E), and by the time 3E came out I was no longer playing D&D because I'd been frustrated by various limitations in the 1E/2E shared mechanics. I certainly didn't think of D&D as an industry leader back when 3E was coming out. Virtually noone I knew was playing it. I knew alot of people playing WW games. The bookstores gaming sections were whole rows of green backed WoD books. I knew of alot of people playing Dead Lands, and a guy getting together a CoC: Delta Green game. Heck, I knew about more RIFTS groups than D&D groups at the time. If D&D wasn't dead, it was certainly dying. There had been some hopeful glimmers near the end of 2E, mostly from the designers that would later be responcible for 3E, but for the most part D&D was a has been game that people associated with noobs, kids, and greyhaired folks. Serious gamers who weren't playing the game since the '70's were playing something else. Steve Jackson basically dismissed D20's relevance and it didn't even sound arrogant, because it was pretty much easy to dismiss D&D as something that had unappealing mechanics that you'd outgrow when you saw the alternatives. (I wonder how he feels about it now.) [/QUOTE]

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