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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3467748" data-attributes="member: 4937">LOL.  Normally at this point in a thread's life, I'm inclined to exit stage left and shut up.  I'm still inclined to do so, and my 'better judgement' is telling me I'm a fool for still posting.  Perhaps the reason I'm still posting is that the people seem to be much less stupid than the sort I'm normally going around in circles with.LOL.My impression is that what you call 'mainstream realism' is not very mainstream.  Mainstream is more likely to be bodice rippers than literary realism.I only implied that you were less funny than Harrison.  But you are more deserving of a laugh, because you come off as far less of an ass.Well, other than the one big difference that you and I would be inclined to say that Dublin is real (though, in point of fact, I've never been there), the process need not be inherently different.  Supposing I wanted to write a novel in 1950's Los Angeles.  Well, 1950's Los Angeles no more exists than does Minas Tirith.  I can't go to either one and produce it.  I have to create a simulation of either one if it is to get to the page.  And for that matter, I can't put the real Dublin or Los Angeles of today on the page either.  It's still also a simulation of the real thing.(Again) No, but it does include reading what the man says about his works and self.  I'd queue up one of his works, but the word of mouth thus far hasn't been very good.  Maybe when I next get down to the library and can't find anything else.Well, I agree its a retreat from messy dirtiness in its own way, as he's something of a Luddite, but it isn't a retreat from adult relationships or any of thier messiness.  With that I can't agree.  I see a whole lot of adults acting with alot of adult responcibility and carrying alot of adult concerns.  That is, unless you define adult relationships as inherently disfunctional and define adult as infantile (which seems typical of 'drama'), in which case I can kinda maybe see your point.Now that is a very good question, as I generally dislike the sort of thing that passes for 'human drama' and don't generally think of what I like in those terms.  Tragedy.  Sure.  Comedy.  Sure.  But drama?   I usually think of drama as being a story in which there is nothing more at stake than something petty, usually solely because of the character's pettyness, and that the author rather than making light of our folly or madness as humans seems to be taking the whole thing far too seriously as if that sort of behavior was a thing to be considered normal or even laudatory.  Drama is comedy without the punch line or wit.  You mention Shakespeare, whom I like very much.  Is he drama?  If so, I like Shakespeare.  Perhaps it is best just to list a few authors greatly I admire and let you decide if there is anything that meets your definition of drama in that: Hugo, Twain, Steinbeck, Jane Austen, Silverburg, Iain M. Banks, Tim O'Brian, Dickens, Kipling, Faulkner, Wolfe, Steven Pressfield.  Expanding out to movies, I like very much Casablanca, The Sound of Music, Chariots of Fire, Sense and Sensibility, and The Incredibles.  I'm not sure if there is any drama in that either.No, I believe that that was Harrison's point so far as I could understand it.  Incidently, where Mr. Harrison and I may agree is that we should eschew the illusion of realism of a certain sort as a standard for judging the literary merit of a work.  I didn't say that they didn't.  I pretty clearly implied that I watched Gillmore girls at least on occassion and found something of merit there (jumped the shark several seasons ago though).  I just implied that I find them at least no less fantastic, nor more relevant to my life, and no more realistic than Lord of the Rings.   That sounds like a very good plan, though I generally drink whiskey rather than gin.</blockquote>

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