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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 3523505" data-attributes="member: 22779">Really?  Look at sites like Canonfire! or Fargoth, or a multitude of others.  I've seen people on EnWorld specifically say that when one person added flying ships to Forgotten Realms that he wasn't playing the Realms anymore.  (sorry, no linkie)  There's a huge amount of chatter on setting canon that flies around.  Try starting a thread that states you think that demons were created by the gods and see what happens.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Really?  So, I can play my modified Warforged Ninja at your 7th Sea game no problem?  Or Imaro's anecdote, which I've seen similarly presented by other people in other places?Let's see WOTC publish a book about the planes which contradicts canon and see what happens.  Or a book which destroys half of Greyhawk and then brings it back in a new form.  Oh wait, that was done fifteen years ago and people still bitch about it.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Sorry, working backwards here.  I would say yes.  Most monster manuals are a complete waste of time.  A book which only sees about 10% use in play is by and large, useless wouldn't you agree?  The search by WOTC for monsters with traction shows how bloated the monster field is right now.  People complain about feat bloat, but, come on, right now, there's THOUSANDS of monsters in print just for 3.5 edition.  Most of which will never see the light of day.And, again, you've made your setting relevant.  Fantastic.  That's how it should be.  <a href="http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3515172&postcount=732" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3515172&postcount=732</a>You're welcome.  (Note, it's been a while, so, I've added my original line to the quote.Apparently, without setting bibles, we are constrained to only play meaningless dungeon crawls without any context.  It is only through world building that we gain any context in the adventures.Celebrim, isn't this pretty much what I've been saying all the way along?  That you can create deep settings WITHOUT world building?Now, I've gone a step further, true, and stated that I find world buildilng to be an indulgence, but, is that where our differences lie?Ok, I'll try to give an example of how you can do setting without world building.  Take the difference between Sword and Sorcery Press' Shelzar: City of Sin and Mystic Eye Games' Urban Blight.In Shelzar, you have a couple of hundred page setting bible that's pretty much par for the course.  Map, several pages of history, hundred or so keyed locations, important NPC section, and a few other odds and sods.  Pretty much bog standard setting bible.  Nothing too original here.  This I would call definitively world building.  It contains all the elements of world building by definition.In Urban Blight, you have 20 encounter locations that can fit into any city.  The locations don't really have any plot to them, although some are suggested by the location - ie. the gambling house would likely have some sort of gaming plot.  The locations are each self contained and are only linked by the fact that they appear in the same book.  Each location is scalable for various levels and are immenently reusable.  To me, this is placing adventure ahead of setting.Imagine if a setting bible city book were presented in this way.  Instead of bog standard setting book, you have a couple of dozen high point adventure locations to be fleshed out by the DM.  You can link them together by including references within the locations which showcase the setting.  Each location can be used and reused and the DM can craft any adventure he feels he wants simply by mixing and matching the locations.I think this is the kind of thing that Rounser is advocating.  Instead of having a 200+ page setting bible appear for pretty much every setting out there, change the format to adventure location books, as specific as you wish them to be, so that the world building that occurs serves the adventure.To me, it's the difference between Sasserine and Farport.  Sasserine will only see a small, tiny fraction of the information available actually used in a given campaign.  The fact that one of the plantation owners who lives a days journey from Sasserine has a hot daughter and six strapping sons will likely not come up in play.  OTOH, every NPC that appears in Farport has a fairly high chance of seeing play.  The history of the Isle of Dread is tied to the main NPC's mother and the players have her journals in their greedy hands.  Setting is tied to adventure, rather than simply mooching around bumming smokes.</blockquote>

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