Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is coming! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why Worldbuilding is Bad
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3560310" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>The player comes up with the details of the force, the religious trappings, and duties, all of which are moving from generic to specific.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Where does Darth's example suggest that the cleric has "gone walkabout in town looking for something to do while the other players gather supplies"?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The DM is responsible for creating the setting in which the play takes place. That includes locations, NPCs, adventure hooks, etc., etc. Player input into this process can (and probably should) be solicited at each juncture, but the DM is not required to give the players what they want simply because they want it. In fact, doing so would quickly make the game boring as it loses the tension between desire and the quest to achieve desire.</p><p></p><p>However, as soon as play begins, the players have an absolute right to have their characters attempt whatever they want. If they want to experience travel, the DM shouldn't simply shift scenes to avoid it, nor should the DM tell them they can't talk to NPCs because he hasn't got a clue what's going on in his world.</p><p></p><p>That's just bad DMing, and a failure to create a setting expansive enough to meet player needs.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The bard wanted to talk to people in the town, along with the cleric. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /> </p><p></p><p>Anyway, this is why the design method you're advocating can so easily lead to a railroad. If your campaign setting is the WLD, once the PCs are in that dungeon, they are allowed to attempt anything they like within the confines of the setting. That they won't necessarily succeed isn't important; setting provides context and meaning to the decisions they make, and failure of some attempts is good in terms of providing both. A druid is out of luck because the setting is a dungeon crawl.</p><p></p><p>However, if your setting is a larger world, where the PCs are supposed to go from adventure to adventure, ignoring anything that interests them but doesn't interest you enough to develop, you're running a railroad. If the adventure starts in a town, exploring that town is fair play. If the hook leads to a dungeon past a menacing forest, exploring that menacing forest -- or the means to go around that menacing forest -- is fair play.</p><p></p><p>And, let's not forget, you can have an agreed-upon railroad. "Let's play STAP" is an agreed-upon railroad. "Let's play WLD" is not (IMHO) unless you try to force the PCs to go to the areas you want them to.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You should read the originals if you can. The De Camp versions were what I started with, too, but I was very glad when I was able to actually read Howard's stories as they were attended.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I believe that this is what Darth supposed in his example; that there were encounters planned, that the players tried to end-run around them, and that the DM forbid that because it fell outside the planned adventure. He can correct me if I am wrong in this assumption. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Like I said, no worries. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 3560310, member: 18280"] The player comes up with the details of the force, the religious trappings, and duties, all of which are moving from generic to specific. Where does Darth's example suggest that the cleric has "gone walkabout in town looking for something to do while the other players gather supplies"? The DM is responsible for creating the setting in which the play takes place. That includes locations, NPCs, adventure hooks, etc., etc. Player input into this process can (and probably should) be solicited at each juncture, but the DM is not required to give the players what they want simply because they want it. In fact, doing so would quickly make the game boring as it loses the tension between desire and the quest to achieve desire. However, as soon as play begins, the players have an absolute right to have their characters attempt whatever they want. If they want to experience travel, the DM shouldn't simply shift scenes to avoid it, nor should the DM tell them they can't talk to NPCs because he hasn't got a clue what's going on in his world. That's just bad DMing, and a failure to create a setting expansive enough to meet player needs. The bard wanted to talk to people in the town, along with the cleric. :D Anyway, this is why the design method you're advocating can so easily lead to a railroad. If your campaign setting is the WLD, once the PCs are in that dungeon, they are allowed to attempt anything they like within the confines of the setting. That they won't necessarily succeed isn't important; setting provides context and meaning to the decisions they make, and failure of some attempts is good in terms of providing both. A druid is out of luck because the setting is a dungeon crawl. However, if your setting is a larger world, where the PCs are supposed to go from adventure to adventure, ignoring anything that interests them but doesn't interest you enough to develop, you're running a railroad. If the adventure starts in a town, exploring that town is fair play. If the hook leads to a dungeon past a menacing forest, exploring that menacing forest -- or the means to go around that menacing forest -- is fair play. And, let's not forget, you can have an agreed-upon railroad. "Let's play STAP" is an agreed-upon railroad. "Let's play WLD" is not (IMHO) unless you try to force the PCs to go to the areas you want them to. You should read the originals if you can. The De Camp versions were what I started with, too, but I was very glad when I was able to actually read Howard's stories as they were attended. I believe that this is what Darth supposed in his example; that there were encounters planned, that the players tried to end-run around them, and that the DM forbid that because it fell outside the planned adventure. He can correct me if I am wrong in this assumption. :) Like I said, no worries. :D [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Why Worldbuilding is Bad
Top