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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Caliburn101" data-source="post: 7393468" data-attributes="member: 6802178">Oh come now, you have no objective proof that 'lack of world building' is a factor in 5th Ed's success. You have at most a feeling coloured by a pre-established point of view.You also didn't address my main point - that as FR is the default gameworld for 5th Ed. and there is already a huge amount of material out there for it, including all the post-launch sales of pdfs etc. of the 3rd Ed. material from Drivethru rpg being used.I am a member of the biggest D&D club in the biggest city in the UK, and you see 5th Ed. being played in FR first, Tal'D second and homebrews third. There are no casual 'a setting isn't used' groups. Not one that I have seen at meets or on the group boards.The title of the thread is "Why Worldbuilding is Bad".You have rather drifted away from that to say it isn't necessary and 'doesn't add much' based on your significant experience. 5th Edition's success is indeed due to a lot of things, but having it's adventures set in a gameworld is one of them.I disagree with your contentions based on a lot of my personal experience. We are not going to agree on this, except to say that the game is fine when run short term in an undefined world.But you always need a world with all that brings with it for a long term campaign that gets the same kind of buy-in the many, many fans have for the CR performances.You and I are old guard - the new wave of players coming in as never before do not expect a 'popcorn and bubblegum' game from what I have seen - they want immersion.Arguing that good world-building or setting doesn't make a game more satisfying is kinda illogical. After all, a game without a decent setting with it's attractions and strengths still has every single one of those strengths but much more besides when a good setting is added.That's just a self-evident fact.In the end we are all involved in a storytelling with rules hobby. Every campaign is a freeform fantasy novel played out between the members of the group.When was the last time you read a fantasy novel without a setting, or enjoyed a fantasy story of novel-length without getting into the details of the world and how it affected the drama?The same things that make a fantasy novel good also make a game good - and that includes an immersive and engaging world for the story to play out in.In rpg'land, one only has to look at the most successful and enduring games and count how many have a detailed setting or settings front and centre as part of their offering to see this clearly demonstrated.</blockquote>

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