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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7396890" data-attributes="member: 82106">I didn't say that your particular (you as in your character) experience or non-experience of orcs is determinant of their status as being 'built into the world' or not. If they are actually concretely held to exist in the fantasy world, then whatever fiction makes that concrete statement is sufficient for that to be the case. I only caveat that with the proviso that it must be known by a character, and thus part of either backstory or narrative involving a character to be really canonical (anything else COULD be changed by the GM). If NO characters in the WoW game has any knowledge or backstory involving orcs, then indeed orcs are not part of that world, at least yet. It may be true, trivially, that WoW is understood to contain orcs, and thus there's no real contention about the statement that they exist in that world, and we can trivially assume that whatever orc-related material the GM has generated or incorporated is going to be treated as canonical. That's fine, but [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s statement which kicked this off was that no orc lore was EVER used in his campaign (which is IIRC now at level 30). All he ever stated was that &quot;anything in the books is allowed and all material will be drawn from the books.&quot; I don't think THAT ALONE makes orcs canonical! No specific orc facts exist within the game world, and thus it is an entirely undecided question and thus no act of world building WRT orcs has happened.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7396890, member: 82106"] I didn't say that your particular (you as in your character) experience or non-experience of orcs is determinant of their status as being 'built into the world' or not. If they are actually concretely held to exist in the fantasy world, then whatever fiction makes that concrete statement is sufficient for that to be the case. I only caveat that with the proviso that it must be known by a character, and thus part of either backstory or narrative involving a character to be really canonical (anything else COULD be changed by the GM). If NO characters in the WoW game has any knowledge or backstory involving orcs, then indeed orcs are not part of that world, at least yet. It may be true, trivially, that WoW is understood to contain orcs, and thus there's no real contention about the statement that they exist in that world, and we can trivially assume that whatever orc-related material the GM has generated or incorporated is going to be treated as canonical. That's fine, but [MENTION=42582]pemerton[/MENTION]'s statement which kicked this off was that no orc lore was EVER used in his campaign (which is IIRC now at level 30). All he ever stated was that "anything in the books is allowed and all material will be drawn from the books." I don't think THAT ALONE makes orcs canonical! No specific orc facts exist within the game world, and thus it is an entirely undecided question and thus no act of world building WRT orcs has happened. [/QUOTE]

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