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Why Worldbuilding is Bad
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<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7401654" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>First off, xp for that chart - that's amazing! I think I might just steal this idea and take it to our game tonight, where we've been over ten years busy in enmeshing ourselves in a plot that seems to have neither end nor beginning.</p><p></p><p>And now, back into the trenches... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p>Cool. This could in theory happen in any game, however, though it needs the right kind of players (who both seek and enjoy such high-drama situations) and DM (willing and able to facilitate such).</p><p></p><p>As for myself, I'm more interested in pushing the PCs rather than stressing the players; who are in theory just here for a good time (as am I).</p><p></p><p>And the mechanics for determining such, yes.</p><p></p><p>Assuming - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the bazaar example is typical, my criticisms of it lie in how anything leading up to that point is essentially skipped over, not least of which is an opportunity for the party to meet and get to know each other. Also, framing it such that the PC or party have to explore the town a bit before finding the feather merchant gives you a chance to tell them - yes, tell them <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> - what the town's all about, so as to better inform their later decisions, approaches, and actions.</p><p></p><p>Absolutely. The three (or four) "pillars" of the game work differently and thus are probably best served by using different mechanics. </p><p></p><p>Combat has more or less robust mechanics in pretty much all RPGs. </p><p></p><p>Exploration mechanics are a more open question...certainly 1e D&D and its ilk have the mechanics for small-scale dungeon exploration nailed down; but wilderness or city or space exploration mechanics are kind of all over the place, and there's a case to be made here that less is more. In any case, though, trying to make these mechanics work the same as combat is a square peg/round hole situation.</p><p></p><p>Social mechanics are covered in widely-varying quality by some game systems but not all, and here IMO less is certainly more no matter what. Matching these to combat is more like trying to put a square peg into something that has no hole at all.</p><p></p><p>The fourth "pillar" - downtime - really doesn't have or need much by way of action-level mechanics; more broad-based stuff like training, stronghold building, spell research etc. is either covered by the game system in use or can be handled case by case.</p><p></p><p>It does...though part of the fun of playing is to be able to try the implausible.</p><p></p><p>You know - thinking about it, that's perhaps part of where story-now and I drift apart. As a player, I want to (and will!) try the implausible or impossible or just plain absurd now and then just for fun. But from what I can tell story-now (and I can't think of a better phrasing but this isn't perfect) takes itself too seriously for this sort of thing. High drama and high tension isn't often the stuff laughs are made of, and I'm in it for the laughs and entertainment most of the time.</p><p></p><p>I wasn't thinking so much of tournament or convention play, but of ongoing RPGA or AL-type play where you can establish your character during the weekly game at your FLGS then take said character to another game at a different store and drop it in, then take it to a convention and drop it into a game there, then return to your FLGS and keep the same character going; with all of these contributing to the character's continuing growth and development.</p><p></p><p>Personally this style of play isn't for me, but I recognize its significance as a major means of both attracting new players (and DMs) to the hobby and keeping them engaged once in; and thus I maintain that any RPG that wants to move beyond niche-within-the-hobby status kinda needs to set this up.</p><p></p><p>If it's a major city in a magical world "teleport" may also be a transport answer.</p><p></p><p>But rather than going through all the checks-resolutions, isn't it both easier and quicker just to tell us up front what we know about the place, at least on an overview level? It could be as simple as:</p><p></p><p>"The campaign starts in Karnos on a warm sunny Midsummers' Day; each of you in your backgrounds has given your rationale for being in town. Karnos is a busy seaport town on the south coast of a region known as Decast, surrounded by gentle farmland to the north, east and west and with a good harbour to the south leading to open water. Major trade routes lead west and north. Its resident population is about 5000, with easily about another 1000 transients - mostly crew from the many tall ships docked or anchored here - in town much of the time. The town is mostly safe except for the "docklands", a few areas of dark alleys and shady characters near the waterfront; elsewhere the local constabulary - backed if needed by Count Vertuin's (the local ruler) strong militia - enforce order, sometimes with a heavy hand. As it's a port town people of nearly all races and cultures can easily be found, as can temples to most major faiths and pantheons; the resident population is mostly Human with a smattering of Hobbits and Part-Elves. By day the streets are often full, as are the many taverns, pubs and inns; at night the sound of revelry often echoes between the buildings until the wee hours; there is no formal curfew. Gear and equipment both mundane and exotic of almost any kind and size is available here; particularly at the twice-weekly markets in Dorian Plaza, the town's central square...and today is a market day."</p><p></p><p>There. How long did that take to narrate? Two minutes, tops; probably less, and not a single die was rolled. And now your players have a much stronger sense of atmosphere and knowledge of their surroundings than they otherwise would have (and which matches that of their PCs, even better!) to inform their decisions and actions; and from here you can either a) frame them straight into the market or their inn or a common meeting point or wherever or b) ask them individually what they are doing today...someone looking for exotic gear, for example, might head for the market.</p><p></p><p>I guess my point is that worldbuilding DM's don't have to do as much of it during play, as the background stuff has already been done.</p><p></p><p>And this matters to me. I can't write and talk/listen at the same time (and know very few if any people who can), so the less in-session writing I have to do the better; because every minute I spend writing is a minute not spent talking or listening - and if I'm not talking or listening quite often that means things quickly grind to a halt...which kinda defeats the purpose.</p><p></p><p>As said above, this is one hell of a chart! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>Lanefan</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7401654, member: 29398"] First off, xp for that chart - that's amazing! I think I might just steal this idea and take it to our game tonight, where we've been over ten years busy in enmeshing ourselves in a plot that seems to have neither end nor beginning. And now, back into the trenches... :) Cool. This could in theory happen in any game, however, though it needs the right kind of players (who both seek and enjoy such high-drama situations) and DM (willing and able to facilitate such). As for myself, I'm more interested in pushing the PCs rather than stressing the players; who are in theory just here for a good time (as am I). And the mechanics for determining such, yes. Assuming - and please correct me if I'm wrong - that the bazaar example is typical, my criticisms of it lie in how anything leading up to that point is essentially skipped over, not least of which is an opportunity for the party to meet and get to know each other. Also, framing it such that the PC or party have to explore the town a bit before finding the feather merchant gives you a chance to tell them - yes, tell them :) - what the town's all about, so as to better inform their later decisions, approaches, and actions. Absolutely. The three (or four) "pillars" of the game work differently and thus are probably best served by using different mechanics. Combat has more or less robust mechanics in pretty much all RPGs. Exploration mechanics are a more open question...certainly 1e D&D and its ilk have the mechanics for small-scale dungeon exploration nailed down; but wilderness or city or space exploration mechanics are kind of all over the place, and there's a case to be made here that less is more. In any case, though, trying to make these mechanics work the same as combat is a square peg/round hole situation. Social mechanics are covered in widely-varying quality by some game systems but not all, and here IMO less is certainly more no matter what. Matching these to combat is more like trying to put a square peg into something that has no hole at all. The fourth "pillar" - downtime - really doesn't have or need much by way of action-level mechanics; more broad-based stuff like training, stronghold building, spell research etc. is either covered by the game system in use or can be handled case by case. It does...though part of the fun of playing is to be able to try the implausible. You know - thinking about it, that's perhaps part of where story-now and I drift apart. As a player, I want to (and will!) try the implausible or impossible or just plain absurd now and then just for fun. But from what I can tell story-now (and I can't think of a better phrasing but this isn't perfect) takes itself too seriously for this sort of thing. High drama and high tension isn't often the stuff laughs are made of, and I'm in it for the laughs and entertainment most of the time. I wasn't thinking so much of tournament or convention play, but of ongoing RPGA or AL-type play where you can establish your character during the weekly game at your FLGS then take said character to another game at a different store and drop it in, then take it to a convention and drop it into a game there, then return to your FLGS and keep the same character going; with all of these contributing to the character's continuing growth and development. Personally this style of play isn't for me, but I recognize its significance as a major means of both attracting new players (and DMs) to the hobby and keeping them engaged once in; and thus I maintain that any RPG that wants to move beyond niche-within-the-hobby status kinda needs to set this up. If it's a major city in a magical world "teleport" may also be a transport answer. But rather than going through all the checks-resolutions, isn't it both easier and quicker just to tell us up front what we know about the place, at least on an overview level? It could be as simple as: "The campaign starts in Karnos on a warm sunny Midsummers' Day; each of you in your backgrounds has given your rationale for being in town. Karnos is a busy seaport town on the south coast of a region known as Decast, surrounded by gentle farmland to the north, east and west and with a good harbour to the south leading to open water. Major trade routes lead west and north. Its resident population is about 5000, with easily about another 1000 transients - mostly crew from the many tall ships docked or anchored here - in town much of the time. The town is mostly safe except for the "docklands", a few areas of dark alleys and shady characters near the waterfront; elsewhere the local constabulary - backed if needed by Count Vertuin's (the local ruler) strong militia - enforce order, sometimes with a heavy hand. As it's a port town people of nearly all races and cultures can easily be found, as can temples to most major faiths and pantheons; the resident population is mostly Human with a smattering of Hobbits and Part-Elves. By day the streets are often full, as are the many taverns, pubs and inns; at night the sound of revelry often echoes between the buildings until the wee hours; there is no formal curfew. Gear and equipment both mundane and exotic of almost any kind and size is available here; particularly at the twice-weekly markets in Dorian Plaza, the town's central square...and today is a market day." There. How long did that take to narrate? Two minutes, tops; probably less, and not a single die was rolled. And now your players have a much stronger sense of atmosphere and knowledge of their surroundings than they otherwise would have (and which matches that of their PCs, even better!) to inform their decisions and actions; and from here you can either a) frame them straight into the market or their inn or a common meeting point or wherever or b) ask them individually what they are doing today...someone looking for exotic gear, for example, might head for the market. I guess my point is that worldbuilding DM's don't have to do as much of it during play, as the background stuff has already been done. And this matters to me. I can't write and talk/listen at the same time (and know very few if any people who can), so the less in-session writing I have to do the better; because every minute I spend writing is a minute not spent talking or listening - and if I'm not talking or listening quite often that means things quickly grind to a halt...which kinda defeats the purpose. As said above, this is one hell of a chart! :) Lanefan [/QUOTE]
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