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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Flying Toaster" data-source="post: 9743342" data-attributes="member: 7052563">I am imagining the “open market” for magic items in a Gygaxian 1E world like Greyhawk: (a sketchy half-orc dweomer-monger, clad in a long black leather overcoat, lurks in a dark alley next to the odoriferous privy behind the Drunken Druid Tavern, accosting passersby)“Pssst... hey buddy... wanna buy a magic carpet?  It’ll help you FLY!!!  Wait wait, where ya going?  You need Gauntlets of Ogre Power?  I got a Codpiece of Bugbear Comeliness , that’s almost as good, right?” Many different versions of a D&D alchemist class appeared in various products and publications, some at least semi-official.  It was usually presented as “NPC only” (“sure, Jan...” <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😏" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60f.png" title="Smirking face    :smirk:" data-shortname=":smirk:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />) but obviously some people must have tried to play them at the table.  Maybe there were so many attempts to make such a class because the alchemist is arguably even more iconic to medieval European culture (and also Chinese culture too) than official PHB classes like the armored cleric, ranger, paladin, or illusionist.  On the other hand it is not really clear why they would go adventuring as PCs, instead of staying home to make elixirs and research hermetic lore.  Those 1E rules seem like weak sauce to me.  Why would anybody go into alchemy if all you can do is be a lab assistant to the local “Enchanter”*?  Even NPC classes got stuck with unforgiving rules from the pen (typewriter?) of EGG. <img class="smilie smilie--emoji" alt="😄" src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f604.png" title="Grinning face with smiling eyes    :smile:" data-shortname=":smile:" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" />B/X alchemists are much more capable and make a lot more sense as part of the magic and treasure economy, although the hireling rules for both editions confused me.  PCs might hire guards, horse grooms, pack animal handlers, sailors, etc for monthly terms, but does a typical adventuring party really need to hire an alchemist or a sage on a month-to-month basis?  Maybe high level PCs are trying to establish a sophisticated court culture at their new domain by funding long-term research into the Philosopher’s Stone and/or the meaning of life**.  Otherwise it seems like you should just go potion shopping at the local alchemist shop, or hire the sage to research some particular piece of arcane lore you need to further your quest.Pathfinder’s PC alchemists are not so much studious potion brewers as firestarters and mad bombers (what bombs at midnight!), and in PF2E “pyro goblin alchemist” is a trope as familiar as “woodsy elf with a bow” or “aggro dwarf with a battle axe”.*“Enchanter”: level title for a 7th level mage[SPOILER]**It’s 42.[/SPOILER]</blockquote>

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