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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 6743755" data-attributes="member: 31506">Why would you NOT take feats into account if allowed. You want to pretend like this DC 11 trip is a freebie. It's not, it comes at the cost of one of your attacks, which could have been a significantly more damaging attack. That's the first opportunity cost (and the second is giving up the better class features of the hunter subclass)Id suggest you actually read the class as well. Note the sentence structure. It's not that the get they get that bonus to all saves, its to saves they are proficient in. What saving throw proficiencies does the wolf get? None. So, they add that extra proficiency bonus to NO saving throws (but does to perception and stealth). Its pure stats for them, and a severe design flaw.  Furthermore, it doesnt raise the saving throw DC of its prone ability, as that's not an attack roll, damage roll, AC, saving throw or skill check.  In the players handbook, the options are bat, cat, constrictor snake, frog, hawk, mastiff, mule, owl, panther, poisonous snake, rat, raven, riding horse, and wolf. The snake can constrict, but cant hold on worth a damn, and the panther, mastiff and wolf can knock prone. Really the wolf or panther are the only decent pick.  And see here I thought we were discussing how D&D is played, and not pure theorycraft. My mistake. Ive never seen that. The ranger as it stands is a somewhat weak class, I think at least equaling the hunter would be nice for beastmasters. Sure, if they got 4x level in temp hit points, that would be nice. But thats not what it is. Those HP are only a bonus if the attack hits the beast instead of the PC. Add in AE's and people actually caring if their beast dies, and it's not the temp HP pool you want to pretend it is.Moreover, its NOT adding an effect to your attack. Its replacing your attack with another. So no hunter's mark. If you have magic weapons, feats etc, you dont get those benefits on the beast's attack. It also comes at the opportunity cost of just playing the better subclass of the hunter, so you're already down an offensive option. The bonus Help is nice, but hey, Paladins can get that every round if their mount is present, since it can act independently without a command. And that doesnt even require them to give up a better subclass.The beastmaster complaints really are a case of "where there's smoke, there's fire". There's a reason people think it is weak, and that's not because it isnt overpowered...</blockquote>

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