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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sacrosanct" data-source="post: 6743848" data-attributes="member: 15700">Even if you include feats, my argument doesn't fall apart.  But it shouldn't even get there, because when evaluating one subclass to another mechanically, you don't throw in a bunch of optional things from the outside.  To do so is disingenuous at worst, fundamentally wrong for any sort of credible analysis at best.  As we say in the testing work (I work as a systems analyst), "Garbage in, garbage out."  That would be like me comparing the shadow monk subclass against the berserker subclass, saying that the monk is effective at range as well because the magic initiate feat grants eldritch blast.Is that really a house rule?  Tell me, if none of the pets have saves, then whey would the say that your prof bonus is applicable to saves?  Since it states that the prof bonus applies to all skills, attack rolls, damage rolls, and AC, it seems clear to me that the inference is that it also applies to Save DC since that a "save", something called out in that sentence.  And even if it weren't, that doesn't nullify the benefit completely.  With bounded accuracy, it seems like it's still a benefit that can apply on every turn.  Which is the point.  So even if you don't apply the prof bonus, granting a class ability that allows you to impose a DC12 save or be knocked prone on every turn is a pretty big deal.Once again, missing the point.  The point is that you have the ability to do X.  Subjective preferences cannot be included with any sort of credibility.  That X in this case is to soak up attacks that would otherwise be targeted at the PC or other allies.  It doesn't really matter how often a player heals their pet or not.  What matters is that it's a benefit that takes attacks away from the PC and allies.Looking at several of the "solutions" people have come up with, it is essentially another PC.  That's not an absurd notion at all.  Look for yourself at some of these solutions.Resorting to strawmen now too?  Can't say I'm surprised.  Also, I don't think you know what "theorycraft" means.  I'm not theorycrafting at all.  All I'm doing is looking at one subclass's objective mechanical benefits.  I haven't provided any in game scenarios or mock battles or anything.So the paladin's mount can grant advantage to any ally as a bonus action?  That's what I asked.  Your answer does not say it can.  And even if it could, "the ranger is not as powerful as the paladin" =/= "the ranger is an underpowered class in general".</blockquote>

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