Wild Shape Size

[Xendria]

I can't find anywhere in the pathfinder book (under Wild Shape and the Beast Shape spells) stating that when you wild shape you gain the size template, I'm assuming you do but just double checking if anyone has found anything I haven't.

And second, does anyone feel that with the new rules they generalized it TOO much. I understand that Wild Shape was incredibly powerful but the whole "if your a small creature you gain this ..." doesn't settle right with me. I mean animals are incredibly different, not to mention having different racial skill modifiers (which they also don't touch on).

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

You do not gain a size templet You gain just what the spells say you do size mod is written into the spell and that is all you gain

From the beast shape spells

Small animal: If the form you take is that of a Small animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Dexterity and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Medium animal: If the form you take is that of a Medium animal, you gain a +2 size bonus to your Strength and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Tiny animal: If the form you take is that of a Tiny animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –2 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Large animal: If the form you take is that of a Large animal, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +4 natural armor bonus.


Diminutive animal: If the form you take is that of a Diminutive animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Dexterity, a –4 penalty to your Strength, and a +1 natural armor bonus.

Huge animal: If the form you take is that of a Huge animal, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –4 penalty to your Dexterity, and a +6 natural armor bonus.

Small magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Small magical beast, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Dexterity, and a +2 natural armor bonus.

Medium magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Medium magical beast, you gain a +4 size bonus to your Strength, and a +4 natural armor bonus.

Tiny magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Tiny magical beast, you gain a –2 penalty to your Strength, a +8 size bonus to your Dexterity, and a +3 natural armor bonus.

Large magical beast: If the form you take is that of a Large magical beast, you gain a +6 size bonus to your Strength, a –2 penalty on your Dexterity, a +2 size bonus to your Constitution, and a +6 natural armor bonus.


And that is the whole list of size mods you gain from beast shape. Myself I loved shapeshift from PHB2 and so love the changes to wildshape myself

 

[Xendria]

I understand what the spell says, obviously refering to it in my first post, but my question concerns the balance of the spells. From what is written clearly the creature does not gain any size, just stats. So yes when someone becomes a large animal they gain +4 Str, -4 Dex, +4 Nat Armor, but do they take up a 10ft by 10ft square? What about odd shaped cretures taking up 20ft by 10ft? Or what about creatures large enough to get reach? Then you have to ask when you are indeed size large, do you get the -4 to hide, -1 to attack, -1 to AC? I enjoy that they tried to simplify Wild Shape and limit it (especially as a DM) but it just seems to me that they left too much out. To the point where the origional Wild Shape almost seems simpler.

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

on page 211, the description of the Polymorphing subschool spells continues:
"If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, combat maneuver bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. You ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell."

It could have been clearer , but I am still reading the book, sorry I over looked that