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Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 1363083" data-attributes="member: 2629">When in a form that uses natural attacks, you (generally) use the natural attack rules. Primary attacks are at full BAB, secondary attacks are at BAB - 5 and you deal damage according to the natural weapon's normal damage (ie; you don't use monk damage). Multiattack lowers the secondary penalties to -2 instead of -5. These natural attacks follow the normal rules for natural attacks ... secondary attacks are treated as off hand attacks (for strength damage / PA purposes) and primary attacks are treated as either one handed or two handed attacks depending upon whether it is the only attack or not.Some forms (lizard man, troglodyte, etc ...) can mix natural and manufactured weapons. In this case, the manufactured weapon attacks using the normal rules for fighting with a weapon (attack at BAB, BAB - 5, BAB - 10, etc ...) and any available natural attacks may also attack as secondary attacks. In these instances, available natural attacks that could normally be used as a primary attack may only be used as a secondary attack. This will reduce the attack roll (by 5 if the creature doesn't have multiattack or by 2 if it does) and reduce bonus damage due to strength (down to 1/2 the strength bonus). It is unclear if mixing natural attacks in with a two handed manufactured weapon attack reduces the effectiveness of the two handed weapon so that it is treated as a one handed weapon (I've received conflicting answers from custserv).A monk in a form with natural attacks may make use of his monk abilities, but deals damage according to his monk abilities (modified for size), not according to his form's natural attack damage. In other words, a 10th level monk in a large form deals 2d8 damage per strike (with three attacks at BAB 7/7/2) when attacking as a monk, regardless of the natural weapons of that form ... though it may also mix in natural attacks as mentioned above.These rules are found in the intro to the monster manual, though they are nto very clearly spelled out. I have repeatedly worked with various custserv agents to try to get them clarified.</blockquote>

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