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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1705655" data-attributes="member: 5777">I think that allowing the base creatures hd to shine through when they are called for in abilities is fine.Going by the wording for both alter self and polymorph it seems ok, as they are both limited by the new 'forms' hd. It is a hard limit that must be observed, so somewhere it is making a difference. The form itself still counts as having its racial hd for abilities, the character himself just doesnt benefit from them in hp, bab, saves, or anything else.SRD:Alter self:You assume the form of a creature of the same type as your normal form. The new form must be within one size category of your normal size. The maximum HD of an assumed form is equal to your caster level, to a maximum of 5 HD at 5th levelPolymorph:This spell functions like alter self, except that you change the willing subject into another form of living creature. The new form may be of the same type as the subject or any of the following types: aberration, animal, dragon, fey, giant, humanoid, magical beast, monstrous humanoid, ooze, plant, or vermin. The assumed form can’t have more Hit Dice than your caster level (or the subject’s HD, whichever is lower), to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level.Shapechange:This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 25 HD).So it seems that you pick up a form which you then become. It is a new body and it has its own hd obviously. Its abilities are based on those racial hd and shouldnt change, as the form itself is still the same. Just like if that creature gained class levels and those levels do not count for powering up the ability. Same thing.</blockquote>

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