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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
will 4e be "gamisticly correct" ?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aloïsius" data-source="post: 3737767" data-attributes="member: 1191"><p>There are many things I like with what I we know about 4e. (streamlined system, no more feat nor XP to create magic item, new magic system, racial talents...).</p><p>But there are things I fear (I won't say dislike because we don't know enough), and most of them are due to excess :</p><p>1) balance above all. This is the D&D religion since 3e : everything should be balanced, no class nor race should be more powerful than another. The problem is that this is somewhat impossible : as long as there is choice, some of them will be better. This cause an endless pattern of revision/errata, nerf or boost, with the end result of fudging with the fluff and consistency of the story lived by the PC.</p><p></p><p> Meanwhile, no amount of errata or playtesting will stop powergamers from breaking the game. Only the DM could stop them. So, I hope we won't see strange things like what happened with the polymorph ability, but I fear we will have some sillyness, in the name of game balance. Utility spells (like alter self, fly...) are most often the N°1 victims of those, because they can be used in combat.</p><p></p><p>2) fun above all. What should the rules do ? Help you describe a world and the lives and adventures of your characters, or allow you to play some abstract tactic game ? I would say both, but the first part is more important. What is the worst : a game where you can lose a fight with one save, or a game where Circea the sorceress is unable to polymorph her victims into pigs, because, well, beeing pigised is "not fun" ?</p><p></p><p> What about coup de grâce ? A dagger in your throat while you were sleeping is not a fun way to die.... We know there won't be death from massive damage (not fun ! beeing bite by a dire T-rex and dying because of a single missed fort save is not fun, you should survivre to three or four bites...), what about coup de grâce ? </p><p></p><p>Poisons were already neutered in 3e (there should be lethal poison. As in "no save, you have only a few hours to live unless someone find the antidote"), I don't think that will change in 4 (a penalty on the condition track is somewhat abstract...and not very frightening). </p><p></p><p></p><p>I fear that WotC takes those two "dogmas" too seriously. I hope there will be room for realism and drama in 4e, and that those two element won't be squizzed to death by fun and balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aloïsius, post: 3737767, member: 1191"] There are many things I like with what I we know about 4e. (streamlined system, no more feat nor XP to create magic item, new magic system, racial talents...). But there are things I fear (I won't say dislike because we don't know enough), and most of them are due to excess : 1) balance above all. This is the D&D religion since 3e : everything should be balanced, no class nor race should be more powerful than another. The problem is that this is somewhat impossible : as long as there is choice, some of them will be better. This cause an endless pattern of revision/errata, nerf or boost, with the end result of fudging with the fluff and consistency of the story lived by the PC. Meanwhile, no amount of errata or playtesting will stop powergamers from breaking the game. Only the DM could stop them. So, I hope we won't see strange things like what happened with the polymorph ability, but I fear we will have some sillyness, in the name of game balance. Utility spells (like alter self, fly...) are most often the N°1 victims of those, because they can be used in combat. 2) fun above all. What should the rules do ? Help you describe a world and the lives and adventures of your characters, or allow you to play some abstract tactic game ? I would say both, but the first part is more important. What is the worst : a game where you can lose a fight with one save, or a game where Circea the sorceress is unable to polymorph her victims into pigs, because, well, beeing pigised is "not fun" ? What about coup de grâce ? A dagger in your throat while you were sleeping is not a fun way to die.... We know there won't be death from massive damage (not fun ! beeing bite by a dire T-rex and dying because of a single missed fort save is not fun, you should survivre to three or four bites...), what about coup de grâce ? Poisons were already neutered in 3e (there should be lethal poison. As in "no save, you have only a few hours to live unless someone find the antidote"), I don't think that will change in 4 (a penalty on the condition track is somewhat abstract...and not very frightening). I fear that WotC takes those two "dogmas" too seriously. I hope there will be room for realism and drama in 4e, and that those two element won't be squizzed to death by fun and balance. [/QUOTE]
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will 4e be "gamisticly correct" ?
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