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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 3738423" data-attributes="member: 4937">I so agree with your #2 Aloïsius.  Sooner or later I'm going to get mod slapped over this but, I have to say it. Failure sucks.  No, really, no one likes to fail.  Failure is the incarnation of 'not fun'.  Winning is always more fun than failing.It certainly would seem like the best way to ensure fun would be to remove all the possibilities of failure.  No more death from massive damage, no more coup de grace, no more energy drain, no more 'one shots', no more save or die, no more poison, no more disease, no more mutilation, no more rust monsters destroying your equipment, no more equipment loss period, no more running out of spells, no more running out of food, no more running out of ammunition, no more running out of resources period, no more tracking encumbrance, no more tracking game time, and I can't even begin to list all the possible points of failure that people have brought up as 'not fun' especially since 4E.  And I have to agree.  They aren't fun.  Damage isn't fun.  Death isn't fun.  Losing a fight isn't fun.  Getting paralyzed isn't fun.  Getting turned to stone isn't fun.   Getting the soul sucked out of you is not fun.  None of those things fun.  Heck, I don't even like it when it doesn't happen to me.  DM's think it sucks when it happens to a player too.But its a fool's errand to try to get rid of them, and anyone advocating that these things be done away with is ruinning not only thier own enjoyment of the game but the fun of everyone else that ends up playing thier namby pampy effortless monte haul game.To paraphrase a recent movie, "if everyone is a winner then no one is".  If success is assured or all but assured, then it isn't success and it isn't worth celebrating.  It's illusionism of the worst sort when the possibilities of failure have been removed, and it proves nothing when you have the illusion of success under such conditions.  If on the other hand, winning is hard, when you win, it means something.  I'm far prouder of beating NetHack than I am of Diablo or Diablo II.  It's pretty darn hard to lose at either Diablo.  The game is designed to be easy and remain easy at every level.  You are along for the ride, and if you die its generally out of boredom solely because things were so easy there for so long you forgot to do anything to protect yourself.  NetHack, it will probably take you 100 tries just to get down to the bottom of the Gnome Mines, and it will probably take you 20 just to figure out how to not starve to death.  Frustrating?  Sure.  Unfun?  Quite often.  But put aside that need to go running for a spoiler for a while and just enjoy the freaking challenge of the game.  Failure has a way of proving to be fun in the long run in a way that instant success just isn't.I sick and tired of all the *snip* going on on the boards about things that are 'not fun'.  *snip* It's gotten bloody everywhere.  You can hardly open a page on the boards without stumbling over 12 'please please pretty please ban this from the game'.  What the???  It's not like D&D is a game were even death is permenent people.  Losing a level is worse than death???  *snip* (I wish I knew a less crude way to say it, but well, there is a reason that DI's use forceful professional language when they want to express themselves.  Somethings just can't be done in a 'nice' way.)*snip*It would be a better world if we could report borish posts the way we could report rude ones.  One doesn't have to be insulting to be freakishly irritating.  Being directly insulting to me is often far less irratating than just being *snip*.  Emotions pass more quickly than ignorance.Ok, mods.  Do your duty.  At least I said it.</blockquote>

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