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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
will 4e be "gamisticly correct" ?
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<blockquote data-quote="Aloïsius" data-source="post: 3741205" data-attributes="member: 1191"><p>I don't say that balance is a bad thing. But sometimes, I would like the designer to think "story" before "balance". Wildshape or polymorph is a good example : when you wildshape, your equipement meld with your body, unlike what happen in most fantasy fiction. It means that you don't end literaly naked after wildshaping, something that would unbalance the game. However, from a story point of view, I find suspension of disbelief easier if your stuff does not wildshape with you. </p><p></p><p></p><p>Up to the DM. Of course ! You don't want random monster runing with stuff like that. But if the DMG has a few example of what could be done, the better. In the "no save" poison example, you just need a few line in the DMG, with info about what is the poison (fluff and background), what it does and how to remove the effect. The DM is free to use it or not, this is not something "enforced" at your gaming table. Just an option. This is not about arbitrary killing the PC, this is about giving tools for building a good story. </p><p>The "one minute" poison of 3e are awful tools : you can always succeed a saving throw (a reactive action, not something you are doing), but if you fail a CON damaging poison, you are dead, and 1 minute only makes it impossible to find an antidote if you don't have it already.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And reciprocaly. I know many players who hated the new "harm" and "disintegrate" in 3.5. But this was not optional and was forced upon them when I switched to 3.5. If 4e is all about HP management, chances are great we don't switch for the new edition. </p><p></p><p></p><p>action/destiny/force point is a good mechanic (and I use them). As you said, they allow the players to influence the outcomes of important moments. Provided such important moments are possible in the game. Without polymorph or slay living, there is no need to spent action points...</p><p></p><p></p><p>As I said earlier, narrating a story is simpler when the rules help you do so. Plus, most players (in my experience) will feel railroaded if the DM says "this poison/spell/disease is special, the usual ways does not work, you have to look for this special cure", while if the stuff is in the DMG, they will just feel chalenged. There is a reason why the DMG and the PBH are two separate books : the DMG is all about options and tools for the DM. </p><p></p><p></p><p>"Fantasy realism" is all about internal consistency. It's not realistic to have medusa turning people in stone. But in a fantazy setting, it is. But if the medusa must first whack you with a sword before the can use her gaze attack with efficiency, the internal consistency of your fantasy setting is somewhat endangered. And this lead to suspension of disbelief.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aloïsius, post: 3741205, member: 1191"] I don't say that balance is a bad thing. But sometimes, I would like the designer to think "story" before "balance". Wildshape or polymorph is a good example : when you wildshape, your equipement meld with your body, unlike what happen in most fantasy fiction. It means that you don't end literaly naked after wildshaping, something that would unbalance the game. However, from a story point of view, I find suspension of disbelief easier if your stuff does not wildshape with you. Up to the DM. Of course ! You don't want random monster runing with stuff like that. But if the DMG has a few example of what could be done, the better. In the "no save" poison example, you just need a few line in the DMG, with info about what is the poison (fluff and background), what it does and how to remove the effect. The DM is free to use it or not, this is not something "enforced" at your gaming table. Just an option. This is not about arbitrary killing the PC, this is about giving tools for building a good story. The "one minute" poison of 3e are awful tools : you can always succeed a saving throw (a reactive action, not something you are doing), but if you fail a CON damaging poison, you are dead, and 1 minute only makes it impossible to find an antidote if you don't have it already. And reciprocaly. I know many players who hated the new "harm" and "disintegrate" in 3.5. But this was not optional and was forced upon them when I switched to 3.5. If 4e is all about HP management, chances are great we don't switch for the new edition. action/destiny/force point is a good mechanic (and I use them). As you said, they allow the players to influence the outcomes of important moments. Provided such important moments are possible in the game. Without polymorph or slay living, there is no need to spent action points... As I said earlier, narrating a story is simpler when the rules help you do so. Plus, most players (in my experience) will feel railroaded if the DM says "this poison/spell/disease is special, the usual ways does not work, you have to look for this special cure", while if the stuff is in the DMG, they will just feel chalenged. There is a reason why the DMG and the PBH are two separate books : the DMG is all about options and tools for the DM. "Fantasy realism" is all about internal consistency. It's not realistic to have medusa turning people in stone. But in a fantazy setting, it is. But if the medusa must first whack you with a sword before the can use her gaze attack with efficiency, the internal consistency of your fantasy setting is somewhat endangered. And this lead to suspension of disbelief. [/QUOTE]
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will 4e be "gamisticly correct" ?
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