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Message: <blockquote data-quote="OnlineDM" data-source="post: 5375650" data-attributes="member: 90804">I'm getting ready for tomorrow's session, and I'm trying out monsters from the Monster Vault.  One of my players has made comments in the past that have led me to conclude that an Owlbear encounter would be fun for them.In the Monster Vault, a standard Owlbear is an 8th-level Elite Brute.  There's also a Young Owlbear that's an 8th-level regular Brute.  The party is a balanced party of 6th-level characters, pretty well optimized (not totally min-maxed to the hilt, but definitely strong).  When they were 5th-level they were able to handle an 8th-level encounter without serious danger of death.My logic is that two 8th-level Elites are equal to four 8th-level normal creatures by XP value, which would be an 8th-level encounter for my party of four PCs.  But when I look at the Owlbear attacks, I gasp in horror for my poor players.At will, an Owlbear gets to make two Claw attacks at +12 versus AC (the highest AC in the party is 26; the lowest is, I believe, 17).  If they both hit, the target is grabbed and takes 8d6+12 damage (4d6+6 from each claw).  The highest HP total of any character is in the low 60s.  The expected value of this double attack is (3.5*8 + 12 = ) 40 damage.  That's the EXPECTED value.  The maximum, of course, is 60.  That would drop three of my four party members from full health to unconsciousness, and put the fourth dangerously low.  Oh, and if the double claw doesn't finish the player, the Owlbear gets to use its Beak Snap the next round to deal 4d8+22 damage with no attack roll required.  That will pretty much put anyone who gets grabbed and does not escape below the negative bloodied value.Now, obviously the Owlbear is not always going to connect with both claws.  But when a single at-will attack has that kind of potential, I worry that it's too much to throw at the party.  Should I use one Owlbear and one Young Owlbear instead (mama bear teaching baby bear how to hunt)?  Three or four Young Owlbears (a gang of Owlbear hoodlums)?I'm in favor of having the party feel threatened, naturally, but I don't want to throw anything unfair at them.  And with the Owlbear having 212 hit points, it's not like the thing is going to drop before it gets to attack, even if everyone unloads daily powers.What do you think?</blockquote>

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