Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Will the 4E classes be deliberately unbalanced to get players to read?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Torchlyte" data-source="post: 4208146" data-attributes="member: 64272"><p>This.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Calculating with respect to hits is statistically flawed because what you need to hit varies.</p><p></p><p>Everything outside of the crit instance is sunk.</p><p></p><p>We roll a 1: the feat does nothing.</p><p>We roll a 15: the feat does nothing.</p><p>We roll a 20: the feat does something.</p><p></p><p>1/20 is our starting modifier to represent the probability of the feat activating, equating to .05 as a decimal.</p><p></p><p>The feat adds 1d10 damage, averaging 5.5 damage when a crit has occurred.</p><p></p><p>Multiply 5.5 * .05, and you get .275 damage. We took into account the applicable probability when we used the 1/20 fraction, so this .275 damage is <em>per swing</em>.</p><p></p><p>If we have a crit range of '19-20', we would double the 1/20 to make it 1/10. This leads to a result of .55 damage <em>per swing</em>, if and only if we invested whatever it took to bring our crit range to '19-20' in the first place.</p><p></p><p>Summary:</p><p></p><p>If we crit on 20s, we get +.275 damage per swing.</p><p>If we crit on 19s, we get +.55 damage per swing.</p><p></p><p>*****</p><p></p><p>Now, compare that to to a feat that gives us +2 damage per hit. Unfortunately, this example requires the AC vs Attack assumption we avoided in the previous statements.</p><p></p><p>If we hit on a 6 or more: we will get +1.5 damage per swing</p><p>If we hit on an 11 or more: we will get +1 damage per swing</p><p>If we hit on a 16 or more: we will get +.5 damage per swing</p><p></p><p>Thus, we see that it takes a very high-AC enemy to make the +1d10 feat better, <em>even if we already have a 19-20 crit range</em>.</p><p></p><p>*****</p><p></p><p>For a final comparison, let's say we're increasing 2d6 damage to 2d8 damage through the use of the Backstabber feat. Assume we crit on 19-20.</p><p></p><p>If we hit on a 6 or more: ((13/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = 1.3 + .4 = +1.7 damage per swing</p><p>If we hit on an 11 or more: ((8/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = .8 + .4 = +1.2 damage per swing</p><p>If we hit on a 16 or more: ((3/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = .3 + .4 = +.7 damage per swing</p><p></p><p>That's only a .2 improvement over the +2 damage feat and it requires the rogue to maintain combat advantage.</p><p></p><p>For reference, the stat list for critting on 20s is as follows: +1.6/+1.1/+.6</p><p></p><p>zZz.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Torchlyte, post: 4208146, member: 64272"] This. Calculating with respect to hits is statistically flawed because what you need to hit varies. Everything outside of the crit instance is sunk. We roll a 1: the feat does nothing. We roll a 15: the feat does nothing. We roll a 20: the feat does something. 1/20 is our starting modifier to represent the probability of the feat activating, equating to .05 as a decimal. The feat adds 1d10 damage, averaging 5.5 damage when a crit has occurred. Multiply 5.5 * .05, and you get .275 damage. We took into account the applicable probability when we used the 1/20 fraction, so this .275 damage is [i]per swing[/i]. If we have a crit range of '19-20', we would double the 1/20 to make it 1/10. This leads to a result of .55 damage [i]per swing[/i], if and only if we invested whatever it took to bring our crit range to '19-20' in the first place. Summary: If we crit on 20s, we get +.275 damage per swing. If we crit on 19s, we get +.55 damage per swing. ***** Now, compare that to to a feat that gives us +2 damage per hit. Unfortunately, this example requires the AC vs Attack assumption we avoided in the previous statements. If we hit on a 6 or more: we will get +1.5 damage per swing If we hit on an 11 or more: we will get +1 damage per swing If we hit on a 16 or more: we will get +.5 damage per swing Thus, we see that it takes a very high-AC enemy to make the +1d10 feat better, [i]even if we already have a 19-20 crit range[/i]. ***** For a final comparison, let's say we're increasing 2d6 damage to 2d8 damage through the use of the Backstabber feat. Assume we crit on 19-20. If we hit on a 6 or more: ((13/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = 1.3 + .4 = +1.7 damage per swing If we hit on an 11 or more: ((8/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = .8 + .4 = +1.2 damage per swing If we hit on a 16 or more: ((3/20)*2) + ((2/20)*4) = .3 + .4 = +.7 damage per swing That's only a .2 improvement over the +2 damage feat and it requires the rogue to maintain combat advantage. For reference, the stat list for critting on 20s is as follows: +1.6/+1.1/+.6 zZz. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
Will the 4E classes be deliberately unbalanced to get players to read?
Top