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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kichwas" data-source="post: 9765344" data-attributes="member: 891">It can. Maybe not the rules themselves but when they are there and you choose to use them fully.Consider an influence system like that In pathfinder.You want to move along a meter of progress towards a social goal and you use specific abilities, dice, rules, and numbers to move the dial up or down.Some roleplay actions are specifically called out as being able to move the dial, speed it up or slow it down.You’re now forced to game your way through a roleplay scene.A GM could ignore it sure. But “rules as written” there it is.A revolutionary moment for me in a Daggerheart actual play during the beta was when one player started roleplaying a conversation in the middle of a battle and then used an “experience” to get a social outcome.Here they were engaging a loosely typed ruleset that didn’t limit or define what and where so they could do it.Pathfinder has specific limits like “cannot be used in combat” or “takes so many minutes to do” that would block that same action.Here each system’s rules is defining how roleplaying can be done. And because the more complex system has more definition it has defined out certain play options that might make sense in the story.Again a GM can just make a ruling.But if we’re talking about rules as they are written then complex games do end up defining or constraining roleplay.This for me was the exact scenario that got me to lose interest in Pathfinder. Playing what is seen as its best Adventure Path - Season of Ghosts. A portion where we had to convince one of two village elders to take a specific path in the plot. I wanted to do something outside the scope of the defined influence system and its DCs and found I needed to just stop roleplaying, pick a skill, and roll against a DC.- Now half of that was a GM being a stickler for things. But the written rules also constrained me. The PF2E Influence system works a certain way regardless of roleplay. I felt that with a looser typed system the roleplay would just go where it goes.In Mist, I'd do a pile of roleplay and use that to determine what 'tags' impacted a roll, and then we'd roleplay around success or success with consequence, or consequence - defined that loosely so that the entire form of it is roleplay driven.In that PF2E moment, because it happened on a day that I was reading the Daggerheart book’s GMing and player advice, I went from being a gamer that wanted a rule for everything to a gamer that wanted very few rules and just really good advice on how to make ruling that fit the narrative.If the defense of a system’s ability to do roleplay is that you can always ignore the rules… then the rules are actually in the way.</blockquote>

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