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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kichwas" data-source="post: 9766050" data-attributes="member: 891">Almost every RPG ever published with the possible exception of Rolemaster but I think that was just a hge pile if charts. Last saw it in maybe 86 so memory is fuzzy.But I am not sure I have ever seen a more obscure and overly mechanical for no gain RPG than AD&D 1E RAW - which is how we ran it because we were raised to feel cheaters were bad so you run the rules or you’re a cheater and don’t get to play. We were preteens and up till high school freshman and the idea that being a cheater who changes the rules might be ok and not cheating didn’t occur to us. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />So we just slogged through. Some of ya’ll might have been older or had mentors to tell you otherwise but we went from little kids getting punished if we cheated to being on our own with an insane technical manual and knowing you got in trouble if you cheated so don’t. And by the time we’d grown up more we’d moved on to less crunchy games. I moved a couple times in those years and every group I found was the same: RAW or get booted out for cheating.Didn’t even hear if “Rule 0” until BESM in the late 90s.Granted I rarely was willing to play AD&D once I found The Fantasy Trip and then Champions.But since 1981 I am not sure I have seen a more complex RPG. I did see one that had one section that was complex - Other Suns that used trigonometry to do star ship fuel and travel times. The rest if the game was simple.But peopke who say AD&D 1E wasn’t crunchy because they ignored all of the rules weren’t playing AD&D 1E. They were playing their own system.</blockquote>

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