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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5372517" data-attributes="member: 82106">I don't know that it is IDEAL either, my point was only that a 20 STR cleric, with the right pick of race, is perfectly viable, and in fact they ARE perfectly viable, and rather scary. You really only want to do it with a STR/WIS race. I don't really know where people got the idea that CHA is really all that valuable for a STR cleric, it isn't.No, my point is that the STR cleric's powers are just a lot simpler and more direct and aren't really circumstantial at all for the most part.This is a common misconception about CG. The POINT of CG is to provide any healing at all. 1 point brings your fallen comrade back up, so that 1 point is worth FAR more than the additional 3-5 points the CHA cleric is adding. Same with the damage, ANY amount of automatic radiant damage is bad news for your enemies, it is way easy to boost it up and all the nice happy fun undead will love you for it. Sure, with a CHA bonus of +4 it is a better power, but it is already a REALLY good power even without that. Combine with Battle Standard of Healing and the effects are even more awesome. No, the damage you are doing with SW is not super duper amazing, but it will work out to be quite adequate for a daily. If you go 4-5 swings with it per use on average you're doing better damage than most daily powers even with around a -2 to-hit effectively. Remember, the CA extends even to your own attacks, including SW itself. CA is a very nice debuff. It is going to apply to EVERY other attack made against that enemy and a lot of characters don't have an easy time getting CA. The fact that you can shift the effect to a new opponent is really gold too. I think this is a rather underrated and underappreciated power. Yeah, they are just not 'only mediocre'. I think you might want to put one up against a Warlord in actual play and watch. Both are great leaders, but I still say the STR cleric delivers the goods. Righteous Brand was ABSURD pre-errata. Now it is only the best at-will buff in the game. There are still a couple easy ways to get some surgeless healing love, so it really isn't totally nerfed, more like again it was absurd OOTB with AV1 and DP factored in. Surgeless healing though really isn't the big draw for the STR cleric. The big draw is you can apply top-notch buffing, do heavy damage, AND heal all in the same round. When required you can drop one of a whole number of highly effective dailies on top of that. The character will stand up to a pretty good beating and has really excellent defenses. The STR cleric in our group has all around the best defenses of any character in the group, high fort, high will, stratospheric AC, and with a shield in one hand and a crusader's weapon in the other even has a pretty decent REF. It isn't a class with one amazing standout feature, it just has goodness through and through.</blockquote>

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