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Message: <blockquote data-quote="WhatGravitas" data-source="post: 3482175" data-attributes="member: 33132">Yep. But to argue that the Vancian is so inherent to D&D is similar to arguing, that THAC0 is inherent to D&D.The basic concept of THAC0 (roll to hit) is still in D&D, but streamlined.And I also think, that Vancian doesn't mean inflexible "spells per day"-table. I think the D&Dism of the Vancian is:a) Pre-packaged spells: A fireball is a fireball. It's an effect, pre-set and idiot-proof.b) Preparation: Mages prepare spells (as a whole) and can later cast it by expending the spell.c) Resting: Mages must have a down-time to regain an expended/cast spell.d) Advancement: The higher the level, the better and the more spells, you get.e) Spell levels: Spell levels are an unit of measuring spells and they're fixed and tied to the preparation.This is the concept of Vancian magic. The exact implementation, however, can be different from the current one. If you read the list above, even the ToB is very Vancian - but it is completely differently flavoured. The sorcerer is Vancian flavoured, but violates b).If the list above is maintained, it'll be recognized as D&D-magic. And now, we can search for a nice implementation - not only to emulate novels, but also to increase the fun.This is also the reason, why I don't see a spellpoint system as a possible replacement, because it violates to much of the "preparation"-principle. But I can totally see a strange merging of the ToB-system and the classic spellcasting system:To get the flavour and resource management of Vancian and to get the "on-the-fly" feeling of ToB.</blockquote>

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