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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 6100820" data-attributes="member: 82106">Exactly. Honestly the statements of Mike et al are somewhat secondary. The proof is in the pudding so to speak, and the DDN pudding lacks the ingredients required to make a 4e-like game. I don't doubt that if you gutted it hard enough to you could build such a game on the basic mechanics, but you'll have to so far down as it stands now that you'd effectively be barely any better off than starting at zero, and calling that and the game they are aiming at now both by the same name wouldn't mean much. If that's a plan WotC has there's no way for us to tell from the actual playtest material. That's where we end up at Mike's statements, which have included stating there will not be alternate class mechanics, that martial healing is 'shouting severed limbs back on', and the whole rest of the litany of things that have come up here. None of those exactly precludes a 4e-like set of options, game designers change their minds, get some new religion, or get replaced, all the time, and WotC as a whole can't be held to any specific statements about what products it MIGHT or MIGHT NOT make months or years down the road. All we can say is that DDN currently doesn't support 4e-like play, Mike etc don't talk like they consider that sort of play to be something they care for, and some things they've said are most naturally construed to mean that there isn't planned to be a significantly reworked set of options such that 4e-like play would be possible.@El Madhi IMHO the evidence has been presented, along with an analysis and interpretation of it. As Pemerton says you are welcome to critique our analysis and provide an alternative one, but the whole "people are being disingenuous, there's no evidence" line is simply not going to fly. Nobody is being deceptive or deliberately twisting anything. IMHO nobody is being overly biased on our side. In fact if anything could it possibly be that you've dug yourself in so hard that you can't see the logic of any other position anymore? I kind of feel like that's the case here. If we're wrong, then argue the facts, not the people.</blockquote>

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