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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sanguinemetaldawn" data-source="post: 3862889" data-attributes="member: 23390">While these are fair points, it seems like there is one thing being lost in all this discussion about wizards in D&D.  Wizards have low HPs, bad AC, and require lots of XP to level.  Assuming a character was actually played (not just made up by some DM/designer with a DMPC fetish for mages), getting a wizard to high enough levels to actually become powerful was a long struggle in survival, creativity, problem solving, and running away when it became clear that staying would be just a quick death.  And remember at first level a mage could cast one whole spell and some retarded cantrips, and couldn't do much of anything else.It started to change at 4th level, got significantly better at 5th, but even then, there was the problem of being just dangerous enough to kill the entire party accidentally via Fireball over-blasts and Lightning bolt ricochets.At 7th a mage started to really mature, but it took a long time to get there.The point of this post is: done right, you had to start a mage at 1st level, and getting a mage from 1st level to a level where they really started to be powerful (7th level) was very hard.Usually mages got killed one way or the other, if not from arrows, then from being backstabbed by an enemy thief, getting splattered by a thrown boulder, an enemy AoE spell, poison, or a dragon breath.And if a mage did make it that far, it was almost always because of his friends.This was one thing that irritated me about FR, and still does, at least a bit in the Conan d20 game.In FR, how did all those mages get all that experience?  I looked at it, and even if they all got together and killed every one of the named devils and demons, on thier own planes (thus killing them forever and getting XP x 10), I don't see how this could account for more than 5 levels each.  Its not even about DM PC.  Its just straight up stupid.In Conan d20 it seems like EVERY evil wizard is a 13+ level wizard, and the rules are structured to make these way more effective than lower levels.  Beginning Scholars are so weak, they are like 1st ED, except far worse.  Such that I again find myself asking: "How did any of these wizards ever survive the 10 crap levels they have to go through before they suddenly get all the powerful spells?"  The Conan d20 rules on spell access and selection only make the problem worse.The archetype the OP references are nearly always NPCs, to the point where it is frustrating for a player who thinks it might be fun to be such a wizard to actually become one.But to answer the original post, wizards will always have that bit of "Lord it over everyone" simply because of the powers they command.  Exactly as another poster commented, and in keeping with my comments above (i.e. the real world shaking ones will be the NPC wizards).</blockquote>

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