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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 1594040" data-attributes="member: 177">Fair enough.Let me put this another way - if you believe in the laws of physics that make the computers we are using for this communication possible, then the following is irrefutable:  It is thermodynamically impossible for arrival at an idea to take zero energy.  An idea is an ordered state within the brain.  Making that ordered state requires energy.  The laws of quantum mechanics forbid us from saying that it takes both zero energy and zero time.Now, this perhaps seems a bit extreme.  You may say, "Fine, it takes non-zero energy and time to come up with ideas.  But really, the amount of energy and time required is negligible by human standards."I fail to see any reason to make that leap, however.  We can establish that the time and energy must be non-zero.  How, then, can we simply assume that the time and energy required is always negligible?  Upon what is this conclusion based?  Well, actually, it seems to me that the container, in general, does have some value for you.  Given the same exact expression of ideas, you'll buy one container and not another.  MP3's actually have a negative value - large enough so that it overrides the value of the expression it contains for all possible expressions.</blockquote>  That's why I probably would never buy mp3s online, because while I value the music, the file itself I do not.  The main reason I wouldn't buy music online is that for the money paid, I want a tangible object.  Something I can hold, which would be the container of the content I paid for.[/quote]Hm.  The thing is, when you get an MP3, you do have a tangible thing.  It is simply very small, and mashed in among other physical things.  On your hard drive, there's bits of magnetic media that are flipped one way or another.  You can pull out that hard drive and hold it in your hand.  In total, the hard drive representation of the music is smaller than the CD, but it is by no means non-physical.Ah, but that's a separate issue.  It isn't a question of whether it is an MP3 or a CD.  It's a matter of completeness of the representation.  A low-quality MP3 is, effectively, an expurgated version of the music.  It is not unreasonable to want a more full version.  But, we must compare apples to apples - comparing incomplete MP3s to complete CD recordings is not fair.  What if, as far as your ears are concerned, the CD and the MP3 are of equal fidelity?  As mentioned elsewhere - people are fooling themselves if they feel that ideas can generally be separated from the content that expresses them.  The details of the expression change the idea, making the ideas and the expression inexplicably entwined.[/QUOTE]

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