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<blockquote data-quote="Victim" data-source="post: 51700" data-attributes="member: 78">I'm not sure I like the new Bard.&nbsp; While the actual class features seem fine, I don't really like the spellsongs.The bard will be stuck with notes until level 6.&nbsp; However, the notes are much weaker than existing spells.&nbsp; I'd say that they are about 1/2 way in between cantrips and 1st level spells in effect.&nbsp; Having a bunch of super cantips is nice at level 1, but not at level 5.&nbsp; For example, Charm Person was a 1st level spell on the bard list, availibile at 2nd level.&nbsp; Monte's Bard has a Momentary Charm spell note that can be learned from level 1.&nbsp; However, it lasts a mere 1 round per level, which pretty much defies the point of charming someone.&nbsp; Even boosted via the song feats, it'd still have too short a duration.&nbsp; A charm spell slightly superior to the existing one (it's more like the druid one) is a spell chord that bards can learn from level 6.&nbsp; There's a similar problem with higher level spells.&nbsp; Charm Monster on old bards versus new: 7th level minimum versus 13th!Bards seem to lose alot in higher level effects as well.&nbsp; While there is a version of Disintegrate, there's no mass suggestion or very many Melodies at all.&nbsp; There are only 9 melodies (requires level 13) as opposed to the 20+ 5th and 6th level bard spells just in the PHB.&nbsp; Also, many of these Melodies are versions of lower level Bard spells, like break enchantment, charm monster, and hold monster.&nbsp; Finally, bard spellsongs don't seem to be very versatile.&nbsp; I think there are too many damaging effects and flashy magics such as Bardic disintegrates and walls of force, and too little utility, information gathering, or charm effects; at which bards previously excelled.&nbsp; There's not even an equivalent of Prestigiditation to make sure bards have clean clothes while traveling.&nbsp; While the actual class abilities and spellsong idea are nice, the crippled spell list, along with no guidelines for converting other spells to spellsongs, weaken this class greatly.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Victim, post: 51700, member: 78"] I'm not sure I like the new Bard. While the actual class features seem fine, I don't really like the spellsongs. The bard will be stuck with notes until level 6. However, the notes are much weaker than existing spells. I'd say that they are about 1/2 way in between cantrips and 1st level spells in effect. Having a bunch of super cantips is nice at level 1, but not at level 5. For example, Charm Person was a 1st level spell on the bard list, availibile at 2nd level. Monte's Bard has a Momentary Charm spell note that can be learned from level 1. However, it lasts a mere 1 round per level, which pretty much defies the point of charming someone. Even boosted via the song feats, it'd still have too short a duration. A charm spell slightly superior to the existing one (it's more like the druid one) is a spell chord that bards can learn from level 6. There's a similar problem with higher level spells. Charm Monster on old bards versus new: 7th level minimum versus 13th! Bards seem to lose alot in higher level effects as well. While there is a version of Disintegrate, there's no mass suggestion or very many Melodies at all. There are only 9 melodies (requires level 13) as opposed to the 20+ 5th and 6th level bard spells just in the PHB. Also, many of these Melodies are versions of lower level Bard spells, like break enchantment, charm monster, and hold monster. Finally, bard spellsongs don't seem to be very versatile. I think there are too many damaging effects and flashy magics such as Bardic disintegrates and walls of force, and too little utility, information gathering, or charm effects; at which bards previously excelled. There's not even an equivalent of Prestigiditation to make sure bards have clean clothes while traveling. While the actual class abilities and spellsong idea are nice, the crippled spell list, along with no guidelines for converting other spells to spellsongs, weaken this class greatly. [/QUOTE]

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