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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AbsintheCurdle1" data-source="post: 1113907" data-attributes="member: 14007">I agree with everything you just said about Wisdom, except that I keep seeing "determination" as more tied to Charisma. Wisdom gives you the self-discipline, but Charisma gives you the drive (I also agree about low-CHA people being more likely to subjugate their desires to others, but that ties in with it all). I dunno; maybe all this just says something nasty about the way I see social interaction working around me: seems to me that it's the stubborn, loud, determined people that don't listen to reason who get paid more attention to than the thoughtful, try-to-see-all-sides types (can you guess where I'd put myself in that scale? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /> ). I'm not sure what you meant by "Charisma is more about how you view yourself". And I wouldn't say high-CHA people are more likely to need to be the center of attention, in that annoying way- just that they are more likely to be driven to persuade people to their point of view, which you can't do as effectively from the sidelines. There are quietly charismatic people, after all- they know how to get their point across with a few well-timed words. Maybe those are high-CHA/high-WIS? Heh.I guess there will be overlap between the two, no matter what. Someone keeps at an unpleasant task for days straight- is it self-discipline or drive? I'd go with WIS there, but it illustrates how subjective this whole issue is. Bottom line for me, I guess, is that I see lots of stubborn, determined people who seem to have no wisdom, perceptiveness, or common sense at all. It's hard for me to let the one "ability" stretch to encompass things that sometimes seem mutually incompatible. Definitely a matter of personal taste.It's an interesting thread, though- thanks for your comments.</blockquote>

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