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<blockquote data-quote="prabe" data-source="post: 9695059" data-attributes="member: 7016699">I think the idea that the players can decide what their goals are is one of the primary attributes of good TRPG play. Upthread [USER=6690965]@Pedantic[/USER] called it something like &quot;the players setting their own victory conditions,&quot; and I think there's a strong implication that if there are &quot;victory conditions&quot; there are &quot;loss conditions.&quot; Otherwise &quot;victory&quot; would be meaningless, wouldn't it?It might not be the end of the game (or of the campaign) but the PCs damn well can permanently (fail to) achieve some goal or other, which will be the end of that scenario (or situation); that is over. Some people might call that feeling &quot;winning&quot; or &quot;losing&quot; and not mean the end. Words and meanings are flexible, squirmy things, aren't they? Almost like feelings, that way. You asked what people meant by &quot;winning and losing in TRPGs&quot; and people told you and you at least seem to be telling them it's just their feelings and they're adding that to the game and they're wrong; that doesn't seem like what you want to mean, here.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="prabe, post: 9695059, member: 7016699"] I think the idea that the players can decide what their goals are is one of the primary attributes of good TRPG play. Upthread [USER=6690965]@Pedantic[/USER] called it something like "the players setting their own victory conditions," and I think there's a strong implication that if there are "victory conditions" there are "loss conditions." Otherwise "victory" would be meaningless, wouldn't it? It might not be the end of the [B]game[/B] (or of the [B]campaign[/B]) but the PCs damn well can permanently (fail to) achieve some goal or other, which will be the end of that [B]scenario[/B] (or [B]situation[/B]); that is [B]over[/B]. Some people might call that feeling "winning" or "losing" and not mean the end. Words and meanings are flexible, squirmy things, aren't they? Almost like feelings, that way. You asked what people meant by "winning and losing in TRPGs" and people told you and you at least [B]seem[/B] to be telling them it's just their feelings and they're adding that to the game and they're wrong; that doesn't seem like what you want to mean, here. [/QUOTE]

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