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<blockquote data-quote="Daztur" data-source="post: 3813645" data-attributes="member: 55680"><p>As far as combat goes (social stuff, advancement and whatnot are a whole different ball game) I've seen the following kinds of systems in RPGs:</p><p></p><p>1. Tactical (combat should present players with a lot of interesting choices, none of which are obviously the best) Example: chess</p><p>2. Cinematic (combat should allow players to do cool <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />) Example: Spirit of the Century</p><p>3. Gritty (my pancreas!) Example: Rolemaster (I think)</p><p>4. Light (let's get it done fast to get on to other stuff) Example: FUDGE (I think)</p><p></p><p>OD&D is mostly light (with some other <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> thrown in) AD&D 1st and 2nd edition were a wierd mish-mash of all four (with 2ed being a bit less gritty). Vancian magic is fairly tactical, HPs are fairly cinematic, some of the more Gygaxian elements are gritty (high character death rate) and "I roll to hit, I roll for damage, I roll to hit, I roll for damage" is very Light.</p><p></p><p>3ed turned up the tactical element big time, is a bit more cinematic, is a good bit less gritty and not light at all. My main problem with 3ed D&D is that its tactical element are rather <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /><img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />, with high levels being mostly "I win initiative, therefore I win."</p><p></p><p>4ed seems to be throwing gritty largely out the window by rooting out what Gygaxian influences remain and being mostly a tactical/cinematic hybred (with more tactical than cinematic) with just enough light to avoid 3ed AoO and grapple check insanity.</p><p></p><p>If 4ed can pull that off it'd be cool. A medium crunch tactical/cinematic game with a D&D spin would be cool. So would a return to OD&D lightness with a more modern perspective (think there's a number of games that do that well out there). What I REALLY don't like is a 1/2ed badly-designed mish-mash or 3ed over-complicated tactical rules that aren't very tactical. </p><p></p><p>Overall I think I'm going to be very happy with 4ed. I'll do something like this:</p><p>Tactical: 4ed D&D</p><p>Cinematic: 3ed Fate</p><p>Gritty: Burning Wheel</p><p>Light: Rules Cyclopedia</p><p></p><p>And alternate between those four rulesets depending on which sort of combat I want.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Daztur, post: 3813645, member: 55680"] As far as combat goes (social stuff, advancement and whatnot are a whole different ball game) I've seen the following kinds of systems in RPGs: 1. Tactical (combat should present players with a lot of interesting choices, none of which are obviously the best) Example: chess 2. Cinematic (combat should allow players to do cool :):):):)) Example: Spirit of the Century 3. Gritty (my pancreas!) Example: Rolemaster (I think) 4. Light (let's get it done fast to get on to other stuff) Example: FUDGE (I think) OD&D is mostly light (with some other :):):):) thrown in) AD&D 1st and 2nd edition were a wierd mish-mash of all four (with 2ed being a bit less gritty). Vancian magic is fairly tactical, HPs are fairly cinematic, some of the more Gygaxian elements are gritty (high character death rate) and "I roll to hit, I roll for damage, I roll to hit, I roll for damage" is very Light. 3ed turned up the tactical element big time, is a bit more cinematic, is a good bit less gritty and not light at all. My main problem with 3ed D&D is that its tactical element are rather :):):):):):), with high levels being mostly "I win initiative, therefore I win." 4ed seems to be throwing gritty largely out the window by rooting out what Gygaxian influences remain and being mostly a tactical/cinematic hybred (with more tactical than cinematic) with just enough light to avoid 3ed AoO and grapple check insanity. If 4ed can pull that off it'd be cool. A medium crunch tactical/cinematic game with a D&D spin would be cool. So would a return to OD&D lightness with a more modern perspective (think there's a number of games that do that well out there). What I REALLY don't like is a 1/2ed badly-designed mish-mash or 3ed over-complicated tactical rules that aren't very tactical. Overall I think I'm going to be very happy with 4ed. I'll do something like this: Tactical: 4ed D&D Cinematic: 3ed Fate Gritty: Burning Wheel Light: Rules Cyclopedia And alternate between those four rulesets depending on which sort of combat I want. [/QUOTE]
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