Wis or Dex?
- Thread starter Romotre
- Start date
Purely on my perusal of the PH it would seem that dexterity is the better. For though the book claims that wisdom has something to do with the monk's special abilities I have found that most of them are not affected by the wisdom modifier. Since they both affect the monk's dexterity then the deciding factor is skills. Since dexterity applies to more of the skills and feats a monk would use, then that stat would get my vote.
[devil's avacado] well if you plan to use stunning attack wis is a MUST. you retain wis to ac when flat-footed (good when you don't wear armor). will saves help because changes are you'll be the one to take on the mage. spot is a great skill but its cross class. make up for it with a decent wis. [/devil's avacado]
SableWyvern
Cruel Despot
Wisdom in my books. A quick comparison of what each stat gives.
Wisdom
AC bonus that is not lost when dodge bonuses disappear.
Good Will save
Stunning Fist DC
Wis 19 required for some good S&F feats like Mantis Leap
Dexterity
AC bonus lost when flat-footed
Good Reflex save
Good ranged attack
Can be used with weapon finesse.
I think Will save is more important to a monk than Ref: at level 9 they only take a maximum of 1/2 damage from most Ref spells anyway.
Ranged attack would not be of major interest to most monks, especially given that they are limited to thrown weapons or slings, unless they take a proficiency feat.
Ideally, a monk should have enough strength to make Weapon Finesse not all that important. Especially if you have S&F and heaps of cool monk feats in there. Ahhh, Pain Touch ... Wis becomes important yet again...
Wisdom
AC bonus that is not lost when dodge bonuses disappear.
Good Will save
Stunning Fist DC
Wis 19 required for some good S&F feats like Mantis Leap
Dexterity
AC bonus lost when flat-footed
Good Reflex save
Good ranged attack
Can be used with weapon finesse.
I think Will save is more important to a monk than Ref: at level 9 they only take a maximum of 1/2 damage from most Ref spells anyway.
Ranged attack would not be of major interest to most monks, especially given that they are limited to thrown weapons or slings, unless they take a proficiency feat.
Ideally, a monk should have enough strength to make Weapon Finesse not all that important. Especially if you have S&F and heaps of cool monk feats in there. Ahhh, Pain Touch ... Wis becomes important yet again...
SableWyvern
Cruel Despot
Rounser:
The Monk IMC began with
Str: 16
Dex: 17
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 17
Cha: 8
At level 7, he now has Wis 18.
4d6 drop lowest.
Anyone else could do the same thing with a mere 41 point buy.
The Monk IMC began with
Str: 16
Dex: 17
Con: 12
Int: 9
Wis: 17
Cha: 8
At level 7, he now has Wis 18.
4d6 drop lowest.
Anyone else could do the same thing with a mere 41 point buy.
Heh. Under those conditions, fair enough. 
Under a more limited scenario, such as FRCS and core rules, 28 point buy min/maxed Wild Elf monk:
STR 10
CON 10
DEX 18
WIS 16
INT 10
CHA 8
AC 17 (13 flatfooted)
+6 to hit by level 3 with weapon finesse (+7 if you sink the 1st level feat into weapon focus, but I'd rather climb a feat tree such as spring attack)
1d6 damage
+3 DC on stunning attack
Your 41 point buy equivalent monk, by 3rd level is:
AC 16 (13 flatfooted)
+5 to hit by level 3 (+6 if you sink a feat into weapon focus)
1d6+3 damage
2 hit points more than the wild elf
2 more feats than the wild elf (for being human and for not having to buy weapon finesse)
4 extra skill points more than the wild elf (for being human)
+3 DC on stunning attack
Compares pretty favourably, and only weapon finesse (and to a lesser extent, the FRCS wild elf) makes it work...
Under a more limited scenario, such as FRCS and core rules, 28 point buy min/maxed Wild Elf monk:
STR 10
CON 10
DEX 18
WIS 16
INT 10
CHA 8
AC 17 (13 flatfooted)
+6 to hit by level 3 with weapon finesse (+7 if you sink the 1st level feat into weapon focus, but I'd rather climb a feat tree such as spring attack)
1d6 damage
+3 DC on stunning attack
Your 41 point buy equivalent monk, by 3rd level is:
AC 16 (13 flatfooted)
+5 to hit by level 3 (+6 if you sink a feat into weapon focus)
1d6+3 damage
2 hit points more than the wild elf
2 more feats than the wild elf (for being human and for not having to buy weapon finesse)
4 extra skill points more than the wild elf (for being human)
+3 DC on stunning attack
Compares pretty favourably, and only weapon finesse (and to a lesser extent, the FRCS wild elf) makes it work...
Last edited:
Malin Genie
First Post
My pick is "Neither of the above. Strength is more important."
With 28 points, half-orc Monk
ST 16 DX 14 CN 14 IN 10 WS 14 CH 6
You don't need Weapon Finesse, so get a bonus Feat in comparison to high-DX low-ST monks. Your AC isn't as good as pansy Elf Finesse wusses but you hit as often and much harder.
When you get the Improved Trip Feat at 6th level you can actually use it with a good chance of success (even with Weapon Finesse [Unarmed] you can't use DX in a Trip attack unless you are the defender.)
You can take a reasonable amount of punishment, your stunning attacks DC is decent (+2), and although you can't learn Pain Touch, you can learn the Knockdown Feat at 6th level, and actually get to use it fairly often (with a Bull's Strength and an Amulet of Mighty Fists you can be dealing 1d8+7 easily at 6th level...)
Your Jump is based on ST, so you can use your increased speed to full advantage in conjunction with Leap of the Clouds.
So yes, in summary I'd say ST > (WS = DX)
With 28 points, half-orc Monk
ST 16 DX 14 CN 14 IN 10 WS 14 CH 6
You don't need Weapon Finesse, so get a bonus Feat in comparison to high-DX low-ST monks. Your AC isn't as good as pansy Elf Finesse wusses but you hit as often and much harder.
When you get the Improved Trip Feat at 6th level you can actually use it with a good chance of success (even with Weapon Finesse [Unarmed] you can't use DX in a Trip attack unless you are the defender.)
You can take a reasonable amount of punishment, your stunning attacks DC is decent (+2), and although you can't learn Pain Touch, you can learn the Knockdown Feat at 6th level, and actually get to use it fairly often (with a Bull's Strength and an Amulet of Mighty Fists you can be dealing 1d8+7 easily at 6th level...)
Your Jump is based on ST, so you can use your increased speed to full advantage in conjunction with Leap of the Clouds.
So yes, in summary I'd say ST > (WS = DX)
Well, let's do a direct comparison:
AC: Equal. They both contribute (arguably, Wis is slightly more useful as Dex bonus to AC is lost when flatfooted)
Saves: Equal. Yes, you get Improved Evasion at 9th level, but with Evasion, you could argue that Reflex saves become even more important: you have the potential to negate all damage, whereas most people against most spells are only negating half. When you pick up IE, it's as important as a Reflex save to any other class.
Skills: Dex edges it. Wis is important for Listen and Spot, but Tumble, Hide, Move Silently and many more as Dex-based.
Feats: One up to Wisdom. Dex is handy for Combat Reflexes, and make sure it's not too low, but otherwise Wis rules the roost- particularly with Stunning Fist.
Attacks: Has to be Dex. Not only does it contribute to ranged attacks (which admittedly are infrequently used by monks) it can be used with Weapon Finesse to your unarmed attacks.
Special: Dex bonus to Initiative is so useful, especially at high levels, especially when there are high sneak attack rogues, Expert Tactician fighters and assault wizards running around.
The final outcome: Dex wins a slight victory.
AC: Equal. They both contribute (arguably, Wis is slightly more useful as Dex bonus to AC is lost when flatfooted)
Saves: Equal. Yes, you get Improved Evasion at 9th level, but with Evasion, you could argue that Reflex saves become even more important: you have the potential to negate all damage, whereas most people against most spells are only negating half. When you pick up IE, it's as important as a Reflex save to any other class.
Skills: Dex edges it. Wis is important for Listen and Spot, but Tumble, Hide, Move Silently and many more as Dex-based.
Feats: One up to Wisdom. Dex is handy for Combat Reflexes, and make sure it's not too low, but otherwise Wis rules the roost- particularly with Stunning Fist.
Attacks: Has to be Dex. Not only does it contribute to ranged attacks (which admittedly are infrequently used by monks) it can be used with Weapon Finesse to your unarmed attacks.
Special: Dex bonus to Initiative is so useful, especially at high levels, especially when there are high sneak attack rogues, Expert Tactician fighters and assault wizards running around.
The final outcome: Dex wins a slight victory.
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