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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 9194109" data-attributes="member: 6790260">Yeah I feel like you aren't really listening to Crimson Longinus here, Mort. It can take days, even weeks to travel the distance that teleport can cover in but a single action. Even if you throw in 20 minutes to cast and fully exploit scrying and then eight hours' bed rest to be in full fighting shape, there's...just really no way that overland travel isn't going to take longer to achieve the same end.The problem is, with the highest three levels of spells, the percent of challenges they obviate/bypass becomes exceedingly large. As in, almost everything has some spell it can be obviated by. Yes, it's true that not every caster will have them, but a diverse party with at least two distinct full spellcasters is likely to have most of them, and three almost certainly will, once they're high enough level.I'm not saying that it's bad that DMs should need to plan. I'm saying that the excessive degree to which most things that would qualify as interesting stakes become obviated is...well, a problem. A pretty big one,a ctually.In other words, you actively nerf the spell so that it merely has a chance to obviate things--which is what I already said. You make the tool crappy, so there's never really any desire to use it, which is just soft-banning it. E.g., your requirement that the object be "iconic" is simply a straight-up nerf to the text of the spell, which explicitly says that "a chunk of marble from a lich's tomb" is a perfectly valid "associated object." It isn't the only not-very-emblematic thing either, as it also mentions bedclothes and library books, neither of which is guaranteed to be so precisely identifiable with a specific place. How is this not an admission that teleportation, as it stands in the rules, is a problem that needs to be curtailed?Note that we are speaking of teleport, rather than teleportation circle. The former is a 7th-level spell that does not require such sigils (though using them skips the "roll to see how close you got" part, same as having an "associated object")All of which are cool, flavorful, reasonable choices...that are nerfs to these spells so they won't be so broken. You are taking one of the two paths I already outlined. Either you take away the toys to some degree (nerfing, banning, narrowing, etc.), or you get into an arms race over them.Which sounds like straight-up adversarial DMing. "Oh, you used that spell that explicitly does something that would mess up this stuff? Well guess what now you're dropped in a lake of fire next to the City of Brass!" I doubt you would actually do something that petty, but that's merely an extreme demonstration of the logic going on here. The players used a tool that was inappropriate, so they must be punished by having to face some kind of danger. Why not alter the tool so it isn't inappropriate? Why have all these ad-hoc, post-facto nerfs and patches and punishments when you could just....have it actually be part of playing the game that these things are difficult and need time and preparation, rather than a fire-and-forget spell slot?</blockquote>

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