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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
With 5e here, what will 4e be remembered for?
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 6335292" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>You are objectively wrong to call that an "external factor". In 3E, the availability of magic items is absolutely not an "external factor" to the PCs, RAW, because the primary mode of magic item access (certainly wands) is via Feats, not via "magic mart" or them dropping from monsters or the like.</p><p></p><p>The very fact that it was not "external" is precisely why this was a real issue. If it wasn't wands of CLW (which were merely the optimal way to do it), there were other ways to create large amounts of healing items of various descriptions very efficiently and in player control in 3.XE.</p><p></p><p>It would only be an external factor if the DMG had merely advised dropping wands of CLW like they were candy. It did not. What 3E did was put the power in the hands of the players when it came to accessing magic items, to a greater degree than any other edition (including 4E, which puts magic items largely back to being an "external factor", albeit with suggested guidelines and so on - but explicitly allows for you to ignore those and provides mechanical support for doing so, and indeed for removing magic items from the game <em>entirely</em>).</p><p></p><p>To change this, the DM has to remove access to all those Feats, to edit the classes which get them as part of their natural progression, and or to drastically re-cost all magic items. That's a big deal, not a little one.</p><p></p><p>So 3E did change the <em>de facto</em> healing system. It just changed in a way that didn't concern you as much, because whilst it was a massive change, it merely meant tons and tons more magic healing, rather than <em>other</em> forms of healing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 6335292, member: 18"] You are objectively wrong to call that an "external factor". In 3E, the availability of magic items is absolutely not an "external factor" to the PCs, RAW, because the primary mode of magic item access (certainly wands) is via Feats, not via "magic mart" or them dropping from monsters or the like. The very fact that it was not "external" is precisely why this was a real issue. If it wasn't wands of CLW (which were merely the optimal way to do it), there were other ways to create large amounts of healing items of various descriptions very efficiently and in player control in 3.XE. It would only be an external factor if the DMG had merely advised dropping wands of CLW like they were candy. It did not. What 3E did was put the power in the hands of the players when it came to accessing magic items, to a greater degree than any other edition (including 4E, which puts magic items largely back to being an "external factor", albeit with suggested guidelines and so on - but explicitly allows for you to ignore those and provides mechanical support for doing so, and indeed for removing magic items from the game [I]entirely[/I]). To change this, the DM has to remove access to all those Feats, to edit the classes which get them as part of their natural progression, and or to drastically re-cost all magic items. That's a big deal, not a little one. So 3E did change the [I]de facto[/I] healing system. It just changed in a way that didn't concern you as much, because whilst it was a massive change, it merely meant tons and tons more magic healing, rather than [I]other[/I] forms of healing. [/QUOTE]
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Community
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With 5e here, what will 4e be remembered for?
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