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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Emerikol" data-source="post: 6335747" data-attributes="member: 6698278">The only problem is that prior to 4e people described things however they liked.  And plenty of people did it all different sorts of ways.  There were plenty of grievous wounds my heroes heroically ignored in all those editions.  Nothing smashed me in the fact that this was wrong.It doesn't matter one bit and you can drone on all day about it if you want if other people played different or the rules said this or that.  Apparently those same rules were vague enough to be interpreted in widely different ways.   4e absolutely slammed the door on that style of game.  They should have realized they were on dangerous ground but they didn't.This is a 4e thread though so that is all I will comment on this subjection.As for umbran's comments, I would just say that I mind not a bit if people attack an inanimate object like a game.  I may disagree and I will defend my side but I don't consider it an attack upon me personally.  I see it as an attack upon an inanimate object that I happen to like and others don't like.  No one is breaking down my door and trying to force me to do anything.The key is not to stop arguing.  Because guess what... enworld would be a ghost town without the debate.  So would the D&D boards.  The debate drives these forums and makes them interesting.   Yes on occasion someone goes too far but that is the exception in my opinion.   I've found that arguing my position and defending it has sharpened by understanding of games a lot.  I'm far more aware of my preferences than I was prior to engaging.  So I consider a person who presents decent arguments and gives reasonable responses to questions and yes counter arguments, to be someone I respect and like.  I have many on these and other boards that I never agree with but that I do respect.   One quick example would be MechaPilot.  She rarely agrees except on the broader concerns of inclusivity but I still feel like a conversation is possible and fruitful.The people I can't get anything worthwhile out of in a discussion I tend to just block.</blockquote>

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