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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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<blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 5984307" data-attributes="member: 42582"><p>Are you responding to me in particular? I didn't say I disliked D&D. (I do dislike 3E. I don't dislike AD&D or B/X. Nor do I love them.) I said that 4e is, for me, the best system for a certain purpose. My favourite version of D&D prior to 4e was the original Oriental Adventures.</p><p></p><p>If you think that liking 4e, and finding it best, means that someone never really liked D&D, I think that is something of a projection of your own preferences onto others whose preferences are obviously quite difference from yours.</p><p></p><p>Saving throws in AD&D are a metagame mechanic, with the focus on results, not process. Saving throws in 3E are a process-simulation mechanic, with the focus on ingame causation (is the character dodging, toughing it out, or staring it down?), not result. This is the direct cause of the change in the fighter's saves, because fighter's get stuck with poor capacities (they're tough but neither agile nor particularly determined) instead of genre-appropriate results.</p><p></p><p>As to basic structure, I could equally say that 4e has the same basic structure as earlier editions - choose class and race, determine class abilities, in combat roll attacks with a d20 and damage with a funky polyhedron.</p><p></p><p>Every edition of the game, including 4e, has Vancian wizards. So there inclusion will not be a shock. The details of the Vancian mechanic is where the action is (eg how many spells, chosen from how broad a list, with what degree of scaling).</p><p></p><p>And as in 4e, martial healing is likely to be located within the warlord class. Which, presumably, those who don't like can ignore.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="pemerton, post: 5984307, member: 42582"] Are you responding to me in particular? I didn't say I disliked D&D. (I do dislike 3E. I don't dislike AD&D or B/X. Nor do I love them.) I said that 4e is, for me, the best system for a certain purpose. My favourite version of D&D prior to 4e was the original Oriental Adventures. If you think that liking 4e, and finding it best, means that someone never really liked D&D, I think that is something of a projection of your own preferences onto others whose preferences are obviously quite difference from yours. Saving throws in AD&D are a metagame mechanic, with the focus on results, not process. Saving throws in 3E are a process-simulation mechanic, with the focus on ingame causation (is the character dodging, toughing it out, or staring it down?), not result. This is the direct cause of the change in the fighter's saves, because fighter's get stuck with poor capacities (they're tough but neither agile nor particularly determined) instead of genre-appropriate results. As to basic structure, I could equally say that 4e has the same basic structure as earlier editions - choose class and race, determine class abilities, in combat roll attacks with a d20 and damage with a funky polyhedron. Every edition of the game, including 4e, has Vancian wizards. So there inclusion will not be a shock. The details of the Vancian mechanic is where the action is (eg how many spells, chosen from how broad a list, with what degree of scaling). And as in 4e, martial healing is likely to be located within the warlord class. Which, presumably, those who don't like can ignore. [/QUOTE]
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With Respect to the Door and Expectations....The REAL Reason 5e Can't Unite the Base
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