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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5986752" data-attributes="member: 22779">No, you've got it nailed pretty well down Lost Soul.&nbsp; The problem is, things like stop motion initiative and the like have been part of the game since the beginning, so, it gets a free pass on the notion of &quot;dissociative&quot; because the game has always been that way.&nbsp; Never mind that there really aren't that many actually dissociative mechanics in 4e.&nbsp; I mean, if you don't want to play with them, don't.&nbsp; Nothing is forcing you to take Come and Get It after all.&nbsp; There's five or six (at least) other FIGHTER powers (never minding other classes powers) at that level that you could choose that aren't dissociated at all.You can quite easily make 4e into a 3e game.&nbsp; A couple of shifts in the healing rules, a bit of careful picking and choosing with powers and you've got a game that is virtually indistinguishable from 3e.&nbsp; But, people will never, ever admit that.&nbsp; 4e is just &quot;too different&quot;, never minding the fact that mechanically, it's far, far closer to 3e than 3e is to any earlier edition.&nbsp; And, we've even gone back to chicken entrail viewing of the industry again I see.&nbsp; Pathfinder is equal to 4e.&nbsp; Really?&nbsp; Prove it.&nbsp; Show me any proof that the number of Pathfinder players is equivalent to 4e or 3e players.&nbsp; Other than gut feelings and anecdote, you've got nothing.&nbsp; But, people state these things like they are facts.&nbsp; If you got facts, let's see them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5986752, member: 22779"] No, you've got it nailed pretty well down Lost Soul. The problem is, things like stop motion initiative and the like have been part of the game since the beginning, so, it gets a free pass on the notion of "dissociative" because the game has always been that way. Never mind that there really aren't that many actually dissociative mechanics in 4e. I mean, if you don't want to play with them, don't. Nothing is forcing you to take Come and Get It after all. There's five or six (at least) other FIGHTER powers (never minding other classes powers) at that level that you could choose that aren't dissociated at all. You can quite easily make 4e into a 3e game. A couple of shifts in the healing rules, a bit of careful picking and choosing with powers and you've got a game that is virtually indistinguishable from 3e. But, people will never, ever admit that. 4e is just "too different", never minding the fact that mechanically, it's far, far closer to 3e than 3e is to any earlier edition. And, we've even gone back to chicken entrail viewing of the industry again I see. Pathfinder is equal to 4e. Really? Prove it. Show me any proof that the number of Pathfinder players is equivalent to 4e or 3e players. Other than gut feelings and anecdote, you've got nothing. But, people state these things like they are facts. If you got facts, let's see them. [/QUOTE]

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